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Oracle Spockanort

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This Astral Dimension thing really fucked you up
Of course, I'm so mad over it! How dare this new piece of lore exist that solves every logistical issue in KH4...

I was ready for some convoluted concept that would require reading Dante's Inferno or learn Quantum Physics but NO Nomura-san had to go "lol astral realm or smth" so now we can go to any Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, whatever world ever.

It's all I've been thinking about all day and mind you, I've been in meetings and writing all day and still am working technically.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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L a y e r s

also omg spocknort's back!
👋 hiii

“How’d you recognize me as Yozora?” Sounds like something someone who has been soul-swapped would say…
A little soul shaped like Yozora is somewhere in the Great Beyond like “I NEED TO GET BACK TO MY BODY”

Hey this means Inside Out works now too
Now hold on there we have to find out who the spiky haired PS2 video game character is lol
 

bambii (aka foreteller)

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Good to have you back, Spock!

I think you're right on the money but also don't put aside your esoteric textbooks just yet! Nomura seems to be deep in his Qabalah era (Sephiroth's namesake, ofc). In Hermetic Qabalah, there are four worlds that the individual "ascends" to return back to the Divine/Spirit or whatever you wanna call it.

  • The World of Assiah = material reality (probably what we already know of as "Reality" i.e. Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, In-Between etc etc, also the world of the Body)
  • The World of Yetzirah = the astral plane, or the "formative" world where imagination/"fiction" reigns supreme and "reality" is malleable. In the Qabalistic texts that I'm personally familiar with, dreams are a sort of window into this world; some also associate it with the Underworld, or the afterlife. This is the world of the "Soul," and is 100% where we're headed in KH (also cheeky connection to the Final World's relationship with Hades' literal Underworld). There's also something known as the "etheric body" and the "etheric world" which exists on the lower levels of the astral world, and sort of connects the Body with the Soul--it's the center of our emotions/emotional body. Safe to say that's probably the "Heart." (Thinking of that quote in the KH4 trailer: "The heart resides within the soul, which in turn is guided to its rightful place.") Also, worth nothing that the first Sephiroth (or "sphere") within the astral world that serves as the gateway into it is associated with the Moon (Kingdom Hearts?), called the "Gate of Yesod." Also from a certain perspective, the astral world "creates" the physical world by imagining it into existence -- there's our "layering" concept
  • The World of Briah = the world of the Mind/Will, inner illumination, higher intuition, archetypes etc. -- can't think of any direct analogues in KH per se beyond occasional references to the mind and the will, but I have a hunch this is sort of what Kingdom Hearts itself represents? Or maybe something to look out for in the Lost Masters Saga
  • The World of Atziluth = the divine world, the world of Spirit, ultimate reality etc etc. -- this is probably what lies beyond Kingdom Hearts. Also, something called the "Abyss" (or "Da'ath") separates the World of Briah from the World of Atziluth, and has to be crossed to get from one to the other. We've definitely heard of the Abyss in KH, "darkness within darkness" and all that. So like, Atziluth being the ultimate source of Light beyond the Darkness, or something.

Idk, thought the parallels were pretty cool. I was really into this stuff a couple years ago when MoM came out and then we got that KH4 trailer and I was like, this is totally where Nomura's drawing inspiration. I felt so vindicated when ML literally dropped the phrase "the Astral Plane." Of course, esoteric lore/Qabalah references are scattered everywhere in the JRPG world so it's not altogether shocking, lol

EDIT:

Oh, I should add that in Qabalah, everything beyond the World of Atziluth is considered "unknowable," essentially "negative reality." There are "three veils" that branch outward into the unknowable, called Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur which roughly translate to "Nothingness," "Limitlessness," and "Eternal Light." The Nothingness element gets my Xemnas senses tingling, and my mind goes to Xemnas on that big dragon at the end of KH2 chasing toward some boundless horizon beyond the doors of his artificial Kingdom Hearts. And also, the World That Never Was is sort of Quadratum (i.e., "Unreality")-esque. So, uh, idk, make of all that what you will lol
 
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Launchpad

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It works well with the established lore, I feel like it could connect to other spiritual/mystical constructs like Coco's afterlife and the force in Star Wars, too. The idea of Disneying via Astral Plane stings a little since they finally cooked with the Gummi Ship in KH3

I'm glad you were able to sign into your own account, Arielle, and you can finally stop using mine to make posts. Hey everyone, it's Launchpad here, for real. Spockanort wrote every post on this account dating back to September 2022, so I apologize if she made any low effort or inflammatory posts during that time.
 

Phoenix

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It works well with the established lore, I feel like it could connect to other spiritual/mystical constructs like Coco's afterlife and the force in Star Wars, too. The idea of Disneying via Astral Plane stings a little since they finally cooked with the Gummi Ship in KH3

I'm glad you were able to sign into your own account, Arielle, and you can finally stop using mine to make posts. Hey everyone, it's Launchpad here, for real. Spockanort wrote every post on this account dating back to September 2022, so I apologize if she made any low effort or inflammatory posts during that time.

Lmfao, you're the Nobody now
 

Darkspawn

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So do we think the Astral Plane and the Final World are two distinct locations or are they the same? It certainly looks like Yozora is “layering” the FW in Re:Mind when he transforms it into Quadratum.

My interpretation is the distortions in the Astral Plane open these paths to the “warp worlds” Remus will introduce us to. These worlds can be on either side of Reality/Unreality, but aren’t actually within the Astral Plane itself.

This is kind of crazy theory, but what if all the Disney worlds we’ve been to were originally from Unreality/Realm of Fiction, but they were pulled into what we know as the KH realm due to some mass distortion during the Missing Link era? And only the original KH worlds made up the original world from the UX era? (Explaining why we only visit Disney worlds via the Book of Prophecies.)

In Dark Road, they say the worlds are reforming after the Keyblade War. But would it be that much of a stretch to say they were actually ripped from the Realm of Fiction in some major disaster event and their stories reset when they were pulled into Reality? Since the era is forgotten, that would be why Odin and the others don’t know about this in Dark Road so they assume those worlds were just fractured from the original world.

If they did this, there would also be no restrictions on the worlds we could visit in Unreality aside from not being any we’ve been to previously. It would just be explained as Disney worlds that weren’t caught up in the disaster.

It would also explain any Disney stories like Tangled’s playing out again in Missing Link as that world would currently be in Unreality. But it would reset by the end of ML’s story when it gets pulled into Reality.
 

Phoenix

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Does someone have a good video of the new concepts the game is introducing? I'm getting lost with KH terminology again.
 

Darkspawn

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Does someone have a good video of the new concepts the game is introducing? I'm getting lost with KH terminology again.

I don’t, but I want to travel back in time to 1999 and make Nomura read my last post. 😂

Also, wanted to mention that my last theory could create some interesting stakes if the goal of the Foretellers is to restore the world to its original state, but doing so would result in Sora being permanently cut off from his Disney pals by sending them back to Unreality.
 

2 quid is good

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It works well with the established lore, I feel like it could connect to other spiritual/mystical constructs like Coco's afterlife and the force in Star Wars, too. The idea of Disneying via Astral Plane stings a little since they finally cooked with the Gummi Ship in KH3

I'm glad you were able to sign into your own account, Arielle, and you can finally stop using mine to make posts. Hey everyone, it's Launchpad here, for real. Spockanort wrote every post on this account dating back to September 2022, so I apologize if she made any low effort or inflammatory posts during that time.
I didn't even realise.....
 
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