Okay so we wait for 1.5+2.5 comes in English and we get info.

If not, hiding from the rage awakened

So it's definitely confirmed that Ven is a Union Leader. Maybe this is why Xehanort wanted him? As it stands, Ven is a Union leader, Ephemer is a second Union Leader and Skuld is the third Union leader. It's interesting to know that Ven had such a huge part in the Keyblade War as a Union leader.

I asked that question, so far no one replied to me.

chaser does mean kh3 info will be in world tour i don't get what he said in the last one?

That was already confirmed in the trailer itself as Ephemer and Skuld identify Ventus as "the 3rd".
The main question that is to be addressed is as to how and why Ventus is even there in the first place, and if he's truly from the past era of fairytales, why and how he can be present in the actual current KH-era when (as far as we know) no one else from that era is.
What is obvious by now is certainly that Ventus, no matter in what exact way, has a closer connection to the past era and if Xehanort knows about this there could be indeed further additional reasons for him being so interested in him.
Actually Ephemer is the first (and overall) leader according to what Ava said, Skuld is the second and Ventus is the 3rd.



Uh no, not really?
We already saw the Keyblade War and the leaders there were the original Foretellers, not these new ones.
Nomura stated beforehand that these five "key people" will be the cause/catalyst of a great upheaval which results in a massive divergence from the plot the original Browser-Chi had.
People apparently furthermore tend to forget that with Maleficent there is also a new player on the "board" in that world.

Okay! I really want to see more of that voice acting part of Kairi and Xion. Where could that be taking place in KH III if it's in the game, km so psyched about that!!! I think it almost sounds like Kairi is writing her thoughts down and maybe Sora is reading it. I didn't get the vibe that she was talking to him about it in person, but who know! I'm not going to say it's impossible!
So the 4th and 5th of the five new union leaders will be revealed sooner than soon? Awesome! Cannot wait! I already made my guess, but it will probably be wrong... I hate being that wrong but it's still so much fun to try and come up with the answer. It would be so like Nomura though to make the last two remaining completely new characters, but I'm hoping it concerns Riku and Kairi. I don't know... Can't wait to finally see the results! YES! ^^

This quote alone sounds like he doesn't have any plan to create a visual cinematic for this particular scene. I don't want to jump to conclusions but I'm not hoping for much lol.

This, plus the KHIII news coming up has me hype though. I hope each Union leader gets the character development they deserve (looking at Skuld for being pretty minor up until now).

I hoped they could clear the Vanitas part during "Heries and Heroines" but this is good too!

Can't wait for the concert.

Why does he have to make things even more obfuscating with this new Ven nonsense though? Ugh

Skuld is still way more interesting than Kairi ever was, though.

And why the fuck didn't they just include the scene in 0.2??? Cinematic is not an excuse imo, they could've implemented that scene they shot. That's some real Kairi character moment right there and it's not in the games? What??
Stop putting canon shit into the concert, it's getting tiring.

we don't know if there there going citmemic or not for the kairi stuff in kh3

How about waiting how it ultimatively plays out before judging it?
Ventus as a character could certainly use some more focus, characterisation and insight and so far we know nothing about how it will actually be handled or what the consequences for the overall story will be.

Oh so the concerts will actually have something new? I thought it would just be scenes from the games and that's all. Interesting. Now I'm looking forward to it even more, though it does kind of suck for everyone who can't make it to a concert. I hope it's nothing too important.

If each single concert has something new on the plate maybe there should be a sticky thread in the forums here that collects all those "snippets" they do?
Since as usual modus operandi Nomura apparently can't resist making each of those canon somehow. <__<

Yeah sounds good, I haven't been reading anything about the concerts really yet because I want to see it first, but after that it would be really interesting to read what differences they have.

I love Skuld, ever since she came out. I'm rather selfish for wanting more from her but I find her having far more potential than Kairi nowadays. I look forward to her arc. :)

Yeaaaaah, I'm not surprised he did this; I'm extremely disappointed in him for making it concert exclusive rather than taking out excerpts from the game itself.
Of course he vaguely implies it to be concert exclusive only but I CAN'T hold my breath. At least if he does have a cinematic for them I'll be surprised and happy, but you know. I'd rather be knowing I'm disappointed rather than hope and be disappointed again lol.

[INDENT]A good choice on your part, that's very interesting how those were structured :)

—So, on the whole, you were mainly in charge of the videos and the dramatic readings, right?

Nomura: Yes. We only just barely got it ready on time, but we made it (dry laughter). For the acting guidance of the dramatic readings, we asked external sound supervisor Mr (Yoji) Shimizu, just like with the games. This concert counts as one of the works in the series, after all. Overseas, we will play recordings of Ms Toyoguchi and Ms Uchida's voices, with subtitles on the videos.

That settles it. I'm officially putting the concerts on my timeline. Kingdom Hearts, your timeline just got two slots bigger.

—Our interest was piqued by how the video that played during Kairi's reading was the only one done in live-action.

Nomura: Kairi is speaking pretty specifically about events happening during KH3, so we didn't have any cinematics that really worked. So, we matched it to a live-action video that fit the vibe. There are pieces of imagery that link to the content of what she is saying, for example, how it shows a scene of a sunset at the part where she says, "He stares at my face."

So, these were just live action establishing shots behind the actors or something? That's interesting.

—On the first day, we were surprised when you came on between performances and blessed us with your talk. During the trailer that played, the hall went pretty wild when Ventus came on screen.

Nomura: Well, the first day is special (laughs). It was perfect timing with the announcement planned at an event overseas, so I decided to have it debut at the concert that was happening a few hours earlier. Of the five new Union Leaders, the remaining two will be revealed from April on. I've finished writing the story for the 4th and am about to start on stuff for the 5th, so please look forward to it.

Wait, you haven't written the full story for the 5th new Union Leader? That's odd. Ah well, I'm sure you know where they'll end up.

I like how they're called Union Leaders and not foretellers now, that makes perfect sense. April can't come soon enough!

—There was also an announcement that information about KH3 would be revealed during the world tour.

Nomura: We announced that KH Unchained χ will become KH Union Cross right after the release of KH -HD 1.5+2.5 -ReMix-, so we have touched a little on KH3. Please wait for more information on this. Source: Famitsu

[/INDENT]

Jeez, alright. I guess I can wait a bit longer.

EDIT: Don't know why, but the formatting of my post came out funky. This always happens when I quote an interview, anyone have any answers?

Personally, I'm think about it in the completely reverse end to you, how has Ventus ended up in a different era without aging? I feel that him being from the era of Fairy tales make a lot of contextual sense. What's boggling is how he ended up so far into the future?

Maybe this Ven-sized box has something to do with it~?

Basically, the Forteller's are a cult group of Yakuza lol!

Is it possible someone from Chi's era simply flung Ven into the future when he was still a ten year old boy?

I think I know for sure which one four is, the one I've been theorizing for a while. No.4 is probably our Player, and Nomura dropped a hint. But now I want to know who five is. These last few days are going to be a nightmare for me. The hype just keeps growing!

But Kairi's reading might imply that she is getting more character development. And it's nice to know that Lea still has Xion somewhat in his memories.

Kairi's reading shouldn't imply anything, it should've been included in THE GAMES and have been development or characterisation. This is still pissing me off. UGH Nomura

i doubt it our own player that me we own union when we already in a union wouldnt make sense

muke we dont if kairi stuff going to be in the game or not he just said he doesnt have cinetamics for it now unlike for the terra and namine where he said it not going to be in the game

Yeah, I admit I'm jumping to conclusions here, but it still bothers me this has happened on a CONCERT first. He should just stop trying to make every goddamn thing canon one way or another.

i now it bother me as well to muke since neither concert are near me and i cant afford one so i know you coming from as well

It doesn't have anything to do with being there for me. It just shouldn't be this way is all. I would be as angry at this as I am now even if I went there.

It does once you consider that the Player is indeed canon, and we simply play as a "Fake Protagonist" while still following the adventure and personality of the real one

Muke we dont if kairi stuff going to be in the game or not he just said he doesnt have cinetamics for it now unlike for the terra and namine where he said it not going to be in the game

...Why are we even suprised? Most of the context of Nobodies and Sora's keyblade ability come from interviews not the game itself.

Well, so is everything else. But I'm not complaining.

That's the problem. Something like this should NOT be the norm.

This is Kingdom Hearts, it has more plotlines and potholes than a net

As much as we love Kingdom Hearts, at the end of the day, it's consumable digital media... and a very lucrative one at that too. If making everything "canon" means that Disney and Square Enix make good money out of the franchise, then they'll do it as often as they can get away with it (much to our dismay).

Heh, I do think we already had this one before, lol.
We're indeed approaching it from completely opposite ends because I am certainly placing more importance and focus on present Ventus and his connections with present characters like Terra, Aqua and Sora, as we were introduced to this Ventus first.
Him being directly from the era of fairy tales, despite any background depictions on awakening platforms, does not make much contextual sense to me so far because right now, with this sparse information, it serves more to separate him from the current main cast than anything else.



This reminds me of that one fanart of this box where someone had stuffed Ephemer into it, lol.

Joking aside, if (past)-Ventus would really be inside that box why would the MoM be so adamant about it not being opened? It's literally only a 10year-old kid in there?
Not to mention that stuffing a poor kid into a box and leaving him trapped there for what could possibly be millenniums would be even worse than the decade-long coma he's in the present.

Although Luxu's shocked "why?" reaction could be reasonable in this context (and the blood red heart on the top of the box does have some similarity to the red heart featured on the Lost Memory Keyblade) I'm still reluctant to believe the content of the box would amount to this.
With Ventus being already involved in the future though, this would mean the box has already been opened at some point, right?

I also somewhat get the vibe that people tend to forget that all this is also highly likely to be actually happening in the Realm of Sleep, meaning it isn't the "actual" past we're witnessing and both Ava (to the Dandelions) and the MoM (to Ava) speak of dreams and an entirely separate realm.



While I'd say that few things are outright impossible in KH due to many concepts being left vague, I'd still ask how?
Like i.e. something involving KH perhaps and a usual "cliché" of Ephemer and Skuld somehow sacrificing themselves to "fling" Ven away?

I mean if it is the realm of sleep then it's not really being flung into the future. I mean Sora entered the realm of sleep in the past and exited in the present but they weren't actually moving forward, there wasn't any real time in the realm of sleep it's more like they just laterally shifted from one era to the next but that's not even totally accurate either. Because there is no movement of time, Sora and Riku aren't moving through time they are moving around outside of real time and then stepping right back into it. Which isn't to say there isn't a time flow, because there clearly is, but in a way that past and future are relative. Like if Sora and Riku didn't free those sleeping worlds eventually the dream would of went on playback, so if they exited when Esmerelda was captured then waited long enough and came back they could arrive back in the world before Esmeralda is captured.

Ergo it really doesn't feel like that big a deal on how Ventus got from the past to the present in the realm of sleep is involved, since all it really means is he just exited into a later point in time. It does however further back up the idea that I align with, that the dandelions are not going to be rebuilding the world because the world doesn't need them yet. There are 7 pure hearts of light left and a handful of other people who survived the war and they will rebuild the world the first time. The dandelions are for when light truly dies, to emerge when KH3 happens and all light in the world is destroyed for good and the MoM's sight comes to an end, thus in comes the backup of wielders full of light and they could also bring with them the lux they collected and that bring back even more light enough to rebuild the world a second time and save it from destruction.

Of course this assumes the MoM means good things when he says "an age of no tragedy" which on the surface sounds good but then I think back to Maleficent. Who in coded told us her motivation was to cover the world in darkness because darkness is like sleep. When everything is blanketed by darkness you can't see the faults you make, feel the pain of your broken dreams, you feel nothing. Data Sora points out though that also means they couldn't make friends or experience happiness, that it's a selfish wish only someone like Maleficent be happy. But I can't help but wonder if the MoM's plan is not similar, truly if you thrust everything into darkness...into sleep...and trapped them all in happy little dreams for the rest of their days then they would earnestly experience an era of no tragedy. No pain, no sadness, just a perfect little world where no one suffers even though they are all in actuality trapped alone in their own heads. However if a dream can give one eternal happiness is it truly so wrong? That is a moral quandary many stories have taken a stance on, but most seem to agree that living in a dream isn't really the right way to live.

I digress though...those are just musings of mine.

-looks at a few of the 'skuld is more interesting than kairi' posts and is confused- HOW? HOW is Skuld more interesting than Kairi? This isn't really a character vs. character thing (and to make it clear, I LOVE Skuld), but a "Nomura's characters are getting flatter and flatter" thing. Yes, I know Kairi is flat. But Skuld's even worse so far! At least we know stuff about Kairi! Who she is as a character, I mean, and what a normal life means for her, with her wishes and dreams and fears. Now someone tell me that about Skuld, or what her life was like before being a Keyblade wielder? What? There's no answer to that? Oh.

BbS started this problem, with us knowing absolutely nothing about the Wayfinder Trio's past lives (or Eraqus', for that matter). And it seems like Nomura's continuing that trend even worse with Chi.

Like, why should I care about any of these characters at all--and want them to have a normal and happy life outside of the fighting--if I don't even know what that looks like for them?

So for reasons like that, if nothing else, I think Kairi is a more interesting character, but to each their own. But I get a little sick of whenever there's a new female character introduced anymore, people always immediately going, "Look at what a much better character this person is than Kairi!" And it seems rash to me, since at this point Kairi and Skuld both have a lot of potential but they both also need development. And are probably equally flat.

But I guess it's better than hating on any new female character introduced to this series, as this fandom usually does, and so I probably shouldn't be complaining.

ANYWAY, on topic, what do you guys think the chances are that the two other Union leaders are more Norns?

Also, I really like Kairi's dialogue here and it's quite interesting! And it's actually a good bit of development for her and Lea both. [strike]It had better be in the game in some way, though![/strike] And I'm interested to see just where this is all going to end up. I think these two could have a great dynamic, for many a reason, and maybe they'll even be a party together in KHIII. Maybe we'll get three multiple playable character scenarios: SDG, Riku and Mickey, and Lea and Kairi.

I'm also just thrilled to hear that she's training hard with her Keyblade and knows how to use it now. It alleviates some of my fears that they'll just stick Kairi in the closet the entire game again because she needs to be "protected".

The Xion poem was also really sweet (and heartbreaking), and I can't wait to get her back! ...And it baffles me that so many fans still seem to think that isn't going to happen. But whatever.

Let me clarify then -- I've only been a KH fan since 2015 (summer to be exact), so I haven't had a chance to really grow up with Kairi, only binge play/watch the series within 1-2 weeks.
The way I see it now, I see far more potential in Skuld's character than Kairi's character because Skuld's but a year old. She has time. I have a chance to grow and maybe empathize with her future story arc in KHuX. I'm interested, but I wouldn't go as far as to polarize her to be vastly better than Kairi. But I do have hope for this character.

Whereas Kairi's kind of...meh. I love her excerpt but it's so disappointing to see it in a concert-exclusive event only. I can't hold my breath and hope TN's going to be good to her in KHIII either. I don't have much hope for her, ESPECIALLY when she's been cast to the side for nearly three games. That's the difference between these two characters for me.

Of course, when KHIII releases and Kairi does get the loving she needs, I'll be pleasantly surprised, at least.

This would certainly add up with the implications of the "Unchained Realm" actually being in the Realm of Sleep (or maybe they're even the same thing just with different names?). Ephemer does contact Skuld and the Player character via dreams after all and Nomura implied that once the new story of "Unchained Season 2" (now named Union Cross) really picks up Dream Eaters will eventually appear.
The main question then would be how and why Ventus "manages" to exit the Realm of Sleep/Unchained Realm and a secondary one would be why he is (as so far known) the only one.



It's called opinions and if I am honest I can see where those people come from to an extent.
While there isn't yet much shown about Skuld's past or "normal" life and she of course has, series-wide spoken, less coverage than Kairi, what she does have is an agenda and an active role in the plot. She is more than once an assist character for the X[chi]-player and participates directly in events like breaking up the fights between other Keykids (and reprimanding them to only use their Keyblades against monsters, not humans), the confrontation with Aced at the fountain plaza, Ava's "Test" as the Illusion-Foreteller, is actually the primary acting force in the conversation with Gula shortly before the war and some more I likely forgot now.
All these give the audience already visual glimpses into Skuld's personality and how she "ticks" to an extent.

Kairi on the other hand has so far had barely any true visible agenda and active role (the manga is leagues better in this but alas an alternate continuity), as most of her direct presence so far has been used as passive "support" role and a motivator for others.
The few actual audible dialogue she gets is almost always centered around Sora (even in 0.2 they still do it by having her compare Riku to him) in some form and the truly interesting stuff about her is either hidden behind the scenes, delegated to her letters (which are a rather impersonal issue compared to i.e. actually saying the things she writes) or in optional speech bubble texts (like in KH 2) that can be easily missed by players who don't look into every talk option.
This new piece from the first World Orchestra Concert is actually another example of this trend if it won't be used in an actual cutscene in KH III.
Going by this, I truly hope this piece from the concert is only a snippet of the dynamic and possible relationship between her and Lea and KH III will actually show a bit more and develop this dynamic.

In the end this isn't really about being a flat or not flat character, but about effective visual presence and use of the character, and in this department Skuld is frankly used more effectively so far despite her presence being limited.


Pfft, BBS didn't even let us see how their present lives and their supposedly so closely-knit friendship was before thrusting them out on separate paths and to the eventual break in their friendship due to miscommunication (and forcibly playing idiot-ball due to plot demands), it's one of the primary reasons why some parts of the fanbase have problems connecting with/caring about TAV and objectively spoken I can do nothing but agree with this notion.
It is telling that the animated intro of 0.2 which actually shows more scenes of TAV being actually together than BBS itself and doesn't have any dialogue manages to warm people up to the three more than the game they're the supposed main characters in.

Concerning Chi, well, at least it seems that concerning the Wayfinder Trio Chi is going to rectify this at least partly in regards to Ventus, although one may argue that Nomura is, yet again, doing this in a needlessly convoluted way with several unneeded "shocking" twists tied to the overaching plot probably coming along for the ride having the potential that in the future the fandom may need yet another flowchart just to keep track of Ventus' "elaborate past" and how it connects to the present era.
And while I am reserving judgement until we actually see where this "journey" goes with Union Cross and exactly how it connects with present Ventus and his current friendships, I do generally agree with the sentiment of it being not really the most effective way to handle "showing a character's past".

As for "slice of normal happy life", which can also be used to characterize a character better and give him/her more depth, showing stuff like this would actually be a neat contrast and variation to all the prophecy-apocalyptic universe-ending Darkness-and-sadness blabla which the series seems to tend towards ever since it was decided to tie the story of X[chi] and the Keyblade War so closely with KH III's story, which was once nothing more than background info and a legend serving as a motivator for Xehanort.
Y'know, just showing us Ventus' home/birthworld somewhere along the way and how Xehanort found him with some background narration via flashback (probably by Ven himself once he regains all his memories) would be much easier to swallow and understand, heck, Ephemer and Skuld could even have been just normal kids who were Ventus' early childhood friends, just like Hayner & co. are for Roxas or Tidus/Wakka/Selphie are for SRK, but Nomura and doing things the easy and quickly understandable way? Naah, not possible.

To be honest I don't know why this apparent notion to "hate" any newly introduced female character is even a thing to begin with. I mean what's the point of it?
Considering that both Ava and Invi were apparently received rather warmly or at least indifferently in contrast to being "hated" maybe this notion is finally wearing off?



Some people tend to be in denial even of stuff that was hinted and implicated several times if they dislike it enough and disregarding my own opinion on the matter, I am on the impression that Xion is probably one of the most if not even THE most controversial character of the whole original cast.

---

That all being said, I certainly don't want to give the impression that I dislike the overall story of the X[chi]-era, it is fine on its own and would be a neat background lore to know for the series, but I do slowly get the vibe that it, and by extension the prophecy-apocalyptic universe-ending Darkness-and-sadness blabla I mentioned earlier, is about to get way too much focus and weight in the upcoming plot of KH III, housing the danger of sweeping the actual struggles, problems and sufferings of the present main cast, be it the TAV-trio from BBS, SRK from KH 1, CoM, KH 2 or the RAX-trio from Days, under the rug or have them play second fiddle to the massive DGBSAP (Doom and Gloom BullShit Apocalypse Plot).
Not to mention all the other still open mysteries and questions from the other games possibly remaining unresolved due to it.

Oh yeah, last thing.
So far I read on the wider net two snippets from the concert, one from Kairi and one from Xion, yet I heard there's also one from Aqua post 0.2, anyone having a link to that one?

I think it's safe to say that the unchained realm might just be their name for the realm of sleep now, that's what I assumed anyways. Although it is suspicious that every world in the series seems to speak English, yet we're only seeing language differences here...

It's called opinions and if I am honest I can see where those people come from to an extent. While there isn't yet much shown about Skuld's past or "normal" life and she of course has, series-wide spoken, less coverage than Kairi, what she does have is an agenda and an active role in the plot. She is more than once an assist character for the X[chi]-player and participates directly in events like breaking up the fights between other Keykids (and reprimanding them to only use their Keyblades against monsters, not humans), the confrontation with Aced at the fountain plaza, Ava's "Test" as the Illusion-Foreteller, is actually the primary acting force in the conversation with Gula shortly before the war and some more I likely forgot now. All these give the audience already visual glimpses into Skuld's personality and how she "ticks" to an extent. Kairi on the other hand has so far had barely any true visible agenda and active role (the manga is leagues better in this but alas an alternate continuity), as most of her direct presence so far has been used as passive "support" role and a motivator for others. The few actual audible dialogue she gets is almost always centered around Sora (even in 0.2 they still do it by having her compare Riku to him) in some form and the truly interesting stuff about her is either hidden behind the scenes, delegated to her letters (which are a rather impersonal issue compared to i.e. actually saying the things she writes) or in optional speech bubble texts (like in KH 2) that can be easily missed by players who don't look into every talk option. This new piece from the first World Orchestra Concert is actually another example of this trend if it won't be used in an actual cutscene in KH III. Going by this, I truly hope this piece from the concert is only a snippet of the dynamic and possible relationship between her and Lea and KH III will actually show a bit more and develop this dynamic. In the end this isn't really about being a flat or not flat character, but about effective visual presence and use of the character, and in this department Skuld is frankly used more effectively so far despite her presence being limited.

You said it, Kairi has unfortunately been swept under the rug for every game she's been a part of so far. In Kingdom Hearts she was in a coma, in II she was relegated to a "save the princess fight a dragon" storyline, and in 0.2 she's just being told a story. Until we get more of her in III, I won't be comfortable with what we have now. Don't get me wrong, I love Kairi, she's just not all that useful so far. My main hope is that Square gives her light powers alongside her keyblade wielding, and finally fleshes out what the powers of the Princesses of Heart finally are.

Skuld, on the other hand, has had plenty to do with X's story, and has been very active as a keyblade wielder. A good character doesn't need a background to be good; they just need to work well with what they have. And, subjectively, I believe that Skuld has done pretty well at playing her part so far. Keep it up, Square. (and, also, give us more Namine)

Pfft, BBS didn't even let us see how their present lives and their supposedly so closely-knit friendship was before thrusting them out on separate paths and to the eventual break in their friendship due to miscommunication (and forcibly playing idiot-ball due to plot demands), it's one of the primary reasons why some parts of the fanbase have problems connecting with/caring about TAV and objectively spoken I can do nothing but agree with this notion. It is telling that the animated intro of 0.2 which actually shows more scenes of TAV being actually together than BBS itself and doesn't have any dialogue manages to warm people up to the three more than the game they're the supposed main characters in

Hmm, never thought about this. You're right, it is odd that the intro shows us more of them being friends than the entire game did. I mean, I hated the BbS trio right out of the gate, so I already thought they were undeveloped, but that's a good point.

Concerning Chi, well, at least it seems that concerning the Wayfinder Trio Chi is going to rectify this at least partly in regards to Ventus, although one may argue that Nomura is, yet again, doing this in a needlessly convoluted way with several unneeded "shocking" twists tied to the overaching plot probably coming along for the ride having the potential that in the future the fandom may need yet another flowchart just to keep track of Ventus' "elaborate past" and how it connects to the present era. And while I am reserving judgement until we actually see where this "journey" goes with Union Cross and exactly how it connects with present Ventus and his current friendships, I do generally agree with the sentiment of it being not really the most effective way to handle "showing a character's past". As for "slice of normal happy life", which can also be used to characterize a character better and give him/her more depth, showing stuff like this would actually be a neat contrast and variation to all the prophecy-apocalyptic universe-ending Darkness-and-sadness blabla which the series seems to tend towards ever since it was decided to tie the story of X[chi] and the Keyblade War so closely with KH III's story, which was once nothing more than background info and a legend serving as a motivator for Xehanort. Y'know, just showing us Ventus' home/birthworld somewhere along the way and how Xehanort found him with some background narration via flashback (probably by Ven himself once he regains all his memories) would be much easier to swallow and understand, heck, Ephemer and Skuld could even have been just normal kids who were Ventus' early childhood friends, just like Hayner & co. are for Roxas or Tidus/Wakka/Selphie are for SRK, but Nomura and doing things the easy and quickly understandable way? Naah, not possible.

Yeah, 0.2 already sold me on Aqua and Terra as characters, and it looks like Union X Cross might finally sell me on Ven as a character. While we shouldn't need a second or third game to get to know these characters better or get to like them better, I'm glad Ventus is being included nevertheless.

To be honest I don't know why this apparent notion to "hate" any newly introduced female character is even a thing to begin with. I mean what's the point of it? Considering that both Ava and Invi were apparently received rather warmly or at least indifferently in contrast to being "hated" maybe this notion is finally wearing off?

Yeah, I feel like it's worn off too. Ava, Invi, and Skuld are all fan favorites now, Aqua's quickly rising to the top of the charts for most beloved Kingdom Hearts characters, and even Kairi's getting developed now that they're exploring her potential. I'm not seeing too much of this hate either; that was an emotion felt by a different era. I remember when there was 3 female characters and Namine was the only one everyone could agree was cool.

Some people tend to be in denial even of stuff that was hinted and implicated several times if they dislike it enough and disregarding my own opinion on the matter, I am on the impression that Xion is probably one of the most if not even THE most controversial character of the whole original cast.

Controversial? Is this about how some people view her as suicidal and are therefore made uncomfortable by her presence in the series? I've heard that before, and I never really saw that in her character.

That all being said, I certainly don't want to give the impression that I dislike the overall story of the X[chi]-era, it is fine on its own and would be a neat background lore to know for the series, but I do slowly get the vibe that it, and by extension the prophecy-apocalyptic universe-ending Darkness-and-sadness blabla I mentioned earlier, is about to get way too much focus and weight in the upcoming plot of KH III, housing the danger of sweeping the actual struggles, problems and sufferings of the present main cast, be it the TAV-trio from BBS, SRK from KH 1, CoM, KH 2 or the RAX-trio from Days, under the rug or have them play second fiddle to the massive DGBSAP (Doom and Gloom BullShit Apocalypse Plot). Not to mention all the other still open mysteries and questions from the other games possibly remaining unresolved due to it. Oh yeah, last thing. So far I read on the wider net two snippets from the concert, one from Kairi and one from Xion, yet I heard there's also one from Aqua post 0.2, anyone having a link to that one?

I agree. if you count X and Unchained X as different games and Union X and Unchained X as two different entities, then the X universe has 4 out of 13 slots in the Kingdom Hearts universe for games. And it seems like those games will be heavily important for Kingdom Hearts III, which is something we all fear. Your suggestion for Kingdom Hearts III's plot was good, and NOBODY was asking for them to include the ancient keyblade war in here. If you erased the X universe, nothing life-changing would occur in the series that would make Kingdom Hearts III impossible to play. Although, we wouldn't have Ephemer or Skuld or Master of Masters, so maybe it's for the best :P

Sorry, the only thing that I've heard is that Aqua's new dialogue is just some bullshit amounting to "Ven, Terra, I'll find you through the darkness!" or something, the same stuff she's been saying since Blank Points.

Well, I wasn't really specifying what order the Union Leaders were in terms of rank, I was just stating the known new Union leaders at the current time.

Uh no, not really? We already saw the Keyblade War and the leaders there were the original Foretellers, not these new ones. Nomura stated beforehand that these five "key people" will be the cause/catalyst of a great upheaval which results in a massive divergence from the plot the original Browser-Chi had. People apparently furthermore tend to forget that with Maleficent there is also a new player on the "board" in that world.

I meant to say that it's interesting to know that Ven has a huge part to play that goes way back than BBS. I know that the leaders of the Keyblade Wars were the Foretellers, not the new union leaders. And yes, I am still waiting to see what Maleficent has planned and why she is in the world of UX. I do believe that this takes place in the RoS but that's just me.

I still believe that it's in the realm of sleep too. Until proven otherwise, I think it's the safer assumption to believe that Ventus somehow ended up in the realm of sleep as opposed to always being a Dandelion. Although, I do admit, it could easily go either way, since Ventus' armor is different and he seems to have been a Dandelion previously.

I don't think the last 2 Dandelions have been ID'd so maybe they could be Urd and Belldandy? :cool:

I swear if these new dandelions are Roxas and Xion I'm out.

Nah, it won't be Roxas and Xion....


It'll be Namine and Xion! XD

Wait, I'm totally expecting this now. The other two are the other Norns, Urd and Veldandi, but look exactly like Namine and Xion. Something happens and their hearts take refuge in Ventus', who as we know will eventually take refuge within Sora's. When Sora sacrifices himself to release Kairi's heart, this released Urd, now as Kairi's "Nobody" Namine. And Roxas sees Xion they way he does because his connection with Ventus and not at all because Xion holds Sora's memories of Kairi.

I've figured you out, Nomura! Bwahahahaah!!

dont be surpsise one of there leader is kairi as for the other one i think the other leader is male

I would definitely be surprised. I still kinda feel Ven will be the only one from the main cast to have strong ties to the Ux time. But then again Maleficent, so who knows I guess. It'll be interesting to see who the other two are.

You know, I actually dreamt the other night Xehanort being one of the new Union leaders...



I nearly cried.

I keep getting worse and worse ideas for new union leaders they could develop, so here's a list of known people that could be union leaders:

1. Eraqus - one of the very few death scenes in the series, don't screw this up Square.
2. Data-Sora - no. Just don't.
3. Riku Replica - the best death scene in the entire series. Please don't ruin one of your best characters, Square.
4. Vanitas - wouldn't be a terrible idea, but still.
5. Namine - probably is going to happen.
6. Xion - probably going to happen, going to throw up because of the contrived nature of it.
7. Roxas - good god, if we have two union leaders that look the exact same and no one questions it I'm going to lose my shit.
8. Maleficent - no.

And, of course, there's always the possibility of Kairi's Grandma, Xehanort, Seagull whose egg Sora stole, Sora's Mom, The mayor of Destiny Islands, Flora, Fauna, Merryweather, guy that turned into a soldier in the second district of traverse town, keyblade wielder with a pumpkin head from X, dude that replaced Cid in his shop from traverse town, Chip, Dale, and Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, of course.

Or, you know, it can just be an original character who they can't possibly ruin by making them into a union leader. Just leave Ven as the only one, guys! Please? I already like the idea of Ven as a union leader, but anyone else is pushing it.

God no, please no.... It'll be okay, it won't happen.
.
.
.
.
.
It'll probably happen.

Don't forget Jiminy! Why else would he be so obsessed with books in this series?

i think it'd be pretty nice if one of the union leaders who gets the bop is actually jiminy
and the jiminy we know is a reincarnation, because jiminy was a boy once

(like, i'm not even kidding)

...God damn it, I'm on the Jiminy train now. That doesn't even sound like a bad idea.

The new union leaders are going to be Random Keyblade wielder number 501 and Ephemer's pet rock

Guys... the 2 remaining union leaders are going to be Sora's parents... isn't it obvious?

A disembodied voice and a boat?

I'm 100% the final two Union members are those two unfinished sketches with Ventus, Skuld, and Ephermia.

I sometimes question if

Nomura is drunk like when he made Coded when he makes these things. Thinking Ven is older than Xehanort was the last thing on my mind.

To be fair, the coded thing was a mistranslation, but still xD Either he's older than Xehanort or he time-traveled

L M A O I'm sorry, but this is hilarious if put that way. xD And true.

Oh god. OH GOD.

So, basically… everyone who has been shipping Ven and Aqua was shipping a diddlying 100,000+ year-old dude who looks like a child with a 18-20 year-old girl??
AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON VEN X VAN

Bleach. BLEACH! THIS IS WAY CREEPIER THAN SHIPPING ROKUSHI!

Ven/Van is somehow not as bad.

!!!!! Thank you, sir.
I never got why Aqua x Ven shipping was ever a thing anyways.

well… 100,000+ year-old dude in a child's body x his twin who actually is a teen

it sounds both creepy and really awkward.
BUT enough of that xD


Me neither! It's just really awkward because they're basically all siblings.

Guys, clearly the final two Union characters are going to be called Verdandi and Urth. The three Valkyries can finally be complete.

Why has this gone off topic, better yet, why is Terra and Aqua or Aqua and any Xehanort a thing than complain about Aqua and Ventus'. We don't even have official ages for the three.

Well, everything that involves an older person x a younger person is just awful and especially in this series really creepy. (I especially don't get Roxas x Axel or Xion x Axel… talk about pedophiles)
(Aqua, Terra, and Ventus are basically like siblings, so I guess that's why people aren't okay with that. Sure, not biologically, but still)

Welcome to shipping , everyone ships everyone. Why you think people keep ship Sora and Riku together just because they hate every girl minus Skuld, and she's not even in the present yet.

I mean there is no way Ven x anyone is not creepy due to the fact he's basically for all intents and purposes an advanced 4 year old. The age gap between him and his friends is probably the largest in the series no less, as Terra and Aqua basically adults and they treat him constantly like a child which he is but it makes that kind of shipping all the more messed up. Same kinda goes for Roxas, Xion, and Namine except they were all born roughly the same time so shipping them together is more or less fine and Ven probably could be shipped with them to so it's not creepy. Vanitas unfortunately is the only not age-creepy ship for him in BBS but that's creepy in so many other ways bordering on Homestuck Cherub creepy.

Oh come on. And even if people hate the girls, it's called an opinion.

Okay here's a question, we know that Ven meets with Ephemera and Skuld in the Keyblade Graveyard, I got that. But which version? Is it like the one we know from BbS, or is it a Sleeping World version? For all we know, time could flow differently in Sleeping Worlds, Ven could be a Union leader here yet still be asleep in Castle Oblivion in real time in-universe.

It's like almost certainly probably but not quite definitely the unchained version whatever that actually means.

Does anybody even care about this possibility? because all I am seeing is people talking about fanfics right now. -_-



Truth be told, we don't know if the Unchained realm is a sleeping world or not. It's heavily implied to be, but it isn't outright confirmed. Which then leads onto Ventus, I don't think that this Ventus has any relation to the Ventus we're familiar with, primarily because he's stylised to look younger, and doesn't have the itinerary provided by Eraqus.

Him being asleep in Castle Oblivion whilst carrying on the duties of Union leader is a possibility, but then that begs the question, why have a permanent position in a part time state of mind?

Nope. Reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy don't even know what that is. Sounds like that Superbia bullshit again, though. Don't care what their names are or if they're symbolic of some sort of 7 deadly sins or valkyries or whatever, that's just a cool little easter egg if they include it. (sorry if that sounded rude, it wasn't meant to be)

Truth be told, we don't know if the Unchained realm is a sleeping world or not. It's heavily implied to be, but it isn't outright confirmed. Which then leads onto Ventus, I don't think that this Ventus has any relation to the Ventus we're familiar with, primarily because he's stylised to look younger, and doesn't have the itinerary provided by Eraqus. Him being asleep in Castle Oblivion whilst carrying on the duties of Union leader is a possibility, but then that begs the question, why have a permanent position in a part time state of mind?

If it's a sleeping world, then he doesn't have to exist as a keyblade wielder in the original world to still play a major part. We don't know him as anything else other than a small boy in the present so far, although it is intriguing that he doesn't have his armaments from Eraqus equipped. Who knows what this means, it could go either way :)

So it's possible there's two Vens running around? Okay. Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but the shorter hair makes him seem older to me. As for that whole "100,000-year old Ven" theory, maybe he got stuck in an Airbender-esque situation or something?

Airbender-esque situation, huh? I'd be cool with that.

That pedophile-joke is really getting old and doesn't even apply strictly spoken when one wants to apply real world connotations as "pedophile" only applies to attraction to children who are twelve or younger. Most of the KH characters are in their mid-teens ranging from 14 to 17 and the age of consent is actually within these ranges in quite some countries around the world, including Japan.
Personal dislike of some ships is one thing but condemning people who actually do ship these pairings isn't really the thing to do as that borders on bullying.

One has to keep in mind that these are all fictional characters in the end and there isn't an automatism in place that people who do such stuff in fandom environment also automatically condone such behaviour in RL.

Edit:
Whoops, after re-reading this I realized this sounds probably much more aggressive than it is intended to be, probably because the generalization of "an older person x a younger person being just awful" also implies that any significant age gap between characters is something to condemn which it isn't.



Way to generalize buddy as I don't remember that everyone who ships Sora and Riku (or any two males really) or keeps those ships afloat automatically "hates" the female characters.

These attempts to "shame" same-sex ships and trying guilt-trip people into "you only ship those because you hate the female characters" are exactly what sparked many of the fandom/ship wars in the past and served only to further entrench opinions as the other side then also joins in with the generalizing bullcrap.

SoRiku-shippers (and people who generally ship boy/boy) are misogynist, gay-fetishizing and amoral assholes is then countered with SoKai-shippers (or people who generally ship boy/girl) are conservative, homophobic and heteronormative assholes, that's the gist of it, is it not?




I'm a little on the fence on this anyways if the two still unknown characters are also completely new ones, as it seems Nomura is yet again falling into the trap of introducing too many characters at once instead of focusing on characterisation and attention for those he already has present.
Ventus being a constant/tie-in between the two eras regardless in which way is certainly an interesting premise and the character certainly needs some more attention, but the same goes for Ephemer and Skuld as well, so it would probably be more "wise" to build up and flesh out the relationship between these characters first before loading even more new stuff on top.

Exactly, that's why I am still reluctant to make any definite judgement on the "Ven is surely from the past and thus actually over 1000 years old"-claim and actually take it as already confirmed. Nomura is known to throw a curveball sometimes and some things are not as they seem on a first glance.
There is quite a time period where this "image" of Ventus was a thing during the present era though as Ven looked like this the entire time he was Xehanort's apprentice and remained as such even in Land of Departure until he was stable enough to actually start training alongside Aqua and Terra.
Only then would Eraqus have given him the shoulder armor pauldron and the "cheststraps" with the symbol.



Lol, there are actually few things I would rule at outright impossible in the KH series (like i.e. Aerith being a Princess of Heart or Kairi not being one for example), so that's certainly also possible.
We already have two Soras with the original and Data-Sora, two (technically even three when one counts the Riku Replica) versions of Riku and several Xehanorts.

Union X-Ven looks certainly younger to me and his more plain design without the accessoires from Eraqus (a form he already had while being Xehanort's apprentice which was also depicted on his first awakening platform) also hints at this.