How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
- Details
- Published on November 29, 2012 @ 01:34 am
- Written by Taylor
In my last editorial, I covered how I fell in love with Kingdom Hearts. In the Golden Days, the gameplay was simple and yet it felt solid and challenging when it needed to be. The bosses and enemies were creative and yet not over-the-top; in fact, in some cases, less was actually more when it came to their design. The atmosphere was an excellent blend of Disney and Square Enix characteristics, and I never felt too flooded from one side over the other (at least, in the first game), and even when the story had its shortcomings (which is often), I was so enveloped in the universe that I rarely thought about the negatives. The Kingdom Hearts universe exclusive characters were memorable enough to still care about, the new and unique take on the Disney characters was excellent, and the cameos by fan-favorite Square characters was entertaining for fans of the company. So much was done right with the first game, which is surprising considering no one would expect a game that mixes something Square with something Disney to be a hit. But it was…at least, for a while.
I disillusioned myself when I was playing Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts II. I told you about how I’d spent hours playing both games and I absolutely adored them, but then I picked them up again just a couple of years later and found that I’d rather beat my head against a wall (which would actually probably be a more challenging experience (that was mean)). They have moments reminiscent of the things I loved about the first game, but they are, as a whole, lackluster. And every game since the original has seen no major improvement upon the formula.
The combat systems have been reworked repeatedly and while they might be getting more complicated at a glance, I found myself just repeatedly tapping X and maybe the triangle button every now and then even in a newer title like Birth by Sleep. Where was the challenge? The first game wasn’t exactly difficult, but I always felt like the gameplay was varied enough for me to be able to plan out certain strategies for certain bosses or enemies. Heck, Chain of Memories had a unique, very interesting combat system, which I sort of wish the developers had adapted to the entire series. When I played Birth by Sleep, all I did was tap the X button like a madman until I built up until I was able to use the “forms” (if that’s what they’re called) that let you pull off more extreme combos by –you guessed it– tapping the X button some more.
Worse than that, the story has just gone to heck in a hand basket. Granted, the story of Kingdom Hearts has never been fantastic if you paid any amount of attention to it in the original games, but it was manageable. But now, the series has gone astray, trying to adapt too many new plot points and mysteries that I’m sure Nomura will attempt to cleverly tie together. The newer Kingdom Hearts games kind of remind me of the manganime, Bleach: it’s ridiculously convoluted and it has become downright unbelievable. It isn’t cohesive, it isn’t simplistic, and there is absolutely no balance between the Square elements and the Disney elements anymore. Goofy and Donald aren’t even your partners in KH3D from what I understand, and while that might seem irrelevant, it’s something that I appreciated from the other games because it always gave a feeling of coexistence between the two universes. Simple things like that are important, lest you get lost in the dark, edgy, and ultimately confusing universe of Kingdom Hearts.
So how did I fall out of love with the Kingdom Hearts series? As I talked about in my last editorial, I grew up. Now, don‘t get me wrong: I don’t believe that the magic of Kingdom Hearts is inherently focused on a prime age group of early teenagers (though it doesn’t hurt). I think it’s possible to love Kingdom Hearts no matter the age; however, once you start recognizing what makes a game good (which I might argue comes not with age, but with experience and time), it becomes hard to reconcile with what the series has turned into. And that was my problem: as I spent more and more time gaming (transforming progressively into a neckbeard by the day), I started to understand what it took to make good gameplay, good atmosphere, and a solid story. Kingdom Hearts doesn’t have any of that anymore.
“Anymore?” Yes, anymore. It did have all of it at one point, or, at the very least, it certainly had the groundwork. As I’ve mentioned, the gameplay used to be challenging and interactive, the atmosphere used to be magical and nostalgic, and the atmosphere used to be a fantastic blend of Disney and Square elements that made me excuse the shortcomings of the silly main story going on behind the scenes. So what happened? I think the biggest downfall of the series, as is with most other series, is overexposure. It was simple back in the early days of the series’ creation. You had the flagship title and then a portable sequel to tie into the second major installment. It was simple and there was just enough to keep you wanting more without feeling like they were just milking the series for all they could. And then they corrupted that concept. I’m sorry, maybe Birth by Sleep is a necessary title but are Days and Coded? Do they actually matter that much on the whole that they deserve their own games? Can’t you just tie certain necessary plot points into other games? Why does there need to be a constant procrastination in the development of the third major title?
There doesn’t. And that’s where every single problem I listed stems from. The gameplay is ruined because it’s mindless and when you are constantly exposed to the same basic mechanics with slightly altered features, you’re going to get bored. The Disney worlds are atmospheric and nostalgic at first, but when you constantly have to visit the same characters over and over, it gets boring (I realize this is something they’ve been trying to fix as of newer titles, but there are only so many Disney movies that you can make worlds out of while still being practical. Cinderella is grasping at straws).
The story used to blend together original elements of the Kingdom Hearts storyline while also incorporating Disney events and characters in a relevant fashion. The Disney Princesses were important to the story in Kingdom Hearts without ever detracting from it. When I played Birth by Sleep last year, all I could feel was that I was just hopping around from Disney world to Disney world without any real point. It’s not like they ever came together. The characters there were only supposed to be important because they were Disney characters, not because they were Disney characters who also influenced what went on with the story as a whole. I felt like almost every world in the original game had something to contribute to the story outside of the mini-story that went on within that world. That’s not true anymore. The magic of the Kingdom Hearts games should not just be that Disney characters are just present; the magic of the series should be that the Disney characters are there and they contribute to the story, both in the grand sense and in the individual worlds.
Furthermore, the story within Kingdom Hearts as a series is just stupid now. Pardon my second-grade vocabulary, but I sat here trying desperately to think of a better word and nothing came to mind. The story is stupid. The original game had a simple yet effective plot of “boy saves girl from bad guy while also saving the world (universe?),” but there was also more than that. There was Ansem’s plot and Riku’s destiny and whatever King Mickey was doing at the time. There was just enough underlying ideas to make me thirsty for more information without ever hurting the basic plot. I mean, the underlying ideas are pretty bad by design, but they weren’t overexposed or overanalyzed. They were ambiguous enough to leave you exploring for yourself, always wanting more. That’s good writing. You want to know what bad writing is? Trying to explain why Xion exists or why Ven looks Roxas. I know there are explanations in the games. I don’t care. They are complicated and stupid and I don’t want to ever take the time to try to learn the ridiculously convoluted storyline. Stop making up stupid characters, stop including silly elements like time travel or hearts held within hearts, and just get back to the basics that made the series loveable.
I fell out of love with Kingdom Hearts because it stopped being something charming that I could appreciate and started being something repetitive and confusing. I don’t want to have to try to convince myself that the games I’m playing are good just because I enjoyed them in the past. I’ve tried Days. I’ve tried Birth by Sleep. I even tried Dream Drop Distance a few months back in a demo. All of them failed to captivate me. All of them felt like the same game that I had been playing since the first Kingdom Hearts except with a lot less heart (no pun intended). When a series has been around for as long as Kingdom Hearts has (happy anniversary), it's time to move forward and innovate. Every new entry into the series has felt either like a step backwards to me, and each new sequel is clearly just pushing along trying to recreate what the original game had.
If Square Enix can refocus Kingdom Hearts into a series that is meant to portray Disney characters in a way that have never been seen while also making me appreciate the exclusive characters, maybe I’d care a little bit more. Maybe if they could fix the gameplay and think of ways to make now-tedious levels like Hercules more fun, maybe I could hop back into the series for once. Maybe if they can get back to the charming basics of the storyline and stop branching off into subpar, confusing storylines. They have enough time to get their acts together before Kingdom Hearts III. They have the ability to fix almost everything. They have the resources and clearly they still have a very strong fanbase ready and waiting for the sleeping giant to awaken. So figure it out Square!
Also, just make Goofy the protagonist already. I love him. I do.
~*~
So what do you guys think? Am I way off base here or has Kingdom Hearts kind of lost what made it special? What keeps you interested in the series, and if you are no longer a fan, what happened? What might you like to see in Kingdom Hearts III? Let us know in the comments section below!
COMMENTS
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I agree, the ridiculous story additions, unnecessary characters, and the overall departure from that Disney feel has made me dislike all KH games outside of KH1.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I have to agree for the most part of this, but I wouldn't go so far as to stop loving the series. Yes, it has lost a lot of its magic, expecially with tying in the Disney characters, but it's still a great series. Personally, Dream Drop Distance is my favorite KH game. The characters in there help a lot to develop Sora and Riku more.
Yes, Xion is totally useless, but I doubt Square is milking this series, they wouldn't do that with a game like KH. A good example of a series being milked is Call of Duty. You could either be playing that or Kingdom Hearts.
The series is still all about heart, it still has the meaningful theme that KH1 brought about, but Square just chose features over atmosphere.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I was enjoying this read and agreed with most of it until I heard mention of procrastinating over KH3, where I just stopped. Honestly, do you even know why KH3 isn't being made? Versus 13, a project that is of signifcant more importance to Square Enix as whole, that's where the MAIN KH team is focused right now, and why Osaka took over for BBS and pretty much every title after that. If we weren't getting these games, even if naturally inferior, we wouldn't be getting anything. Even if it was good, I don't think people would like waiting as long as they have since KH2 for a new KH game.
That said, you clearly haven't played 3D. (Saying as much, yourself) Which IMHO makes anything you say on that topic completely irrelevant. KH3D was pretty damn challenging for KH at Proud and Critical.
Sure the story has gone to buggery but the gameplay is still great and challenging.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| Yes, Xion is totally useless, but I doubt Square is milking this series, they wouldn't do that with a game like KH. |
What makes kingdom hearts any different from any other franchise they have, or square-enix any different from companies that cash in on their games?
| Sure the story has gone to buggery but the gameplay is still great and challenging. |
Uhhhh, the gameplay has never been particularly "great or challenging". KH1 isn't a difficult game in the slightest (if it's harder than the other games it's because of design issues exclusive to itself). Neither is Chain of Memories if you know what you're doing. I don't think I have to go into detail over how easy KH2 is. BBS isn't much more difficult. Maybe 3D is more challenging than those (haven't played it), but it's not like the series was ever hard to begin with.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I was enjoying this read and agreed with most of it until I heard mention of procrastinating over KH3, where I just stopped. Honestly, do you even know why KH3 isn't being made? Versus 13, a project that is of signifcant more importance to Square Enix as whole, that's where the MAIN KH team is focused right now, and why Osaka took over for BBS and pretty much every title after that. If we weren't getting these games, even if naturally inferior, we wouldn't be getting anything. Even if it was good, I don't think people would like waiting as long as they have since KH2 for a new KH game.
That said, you clearly haven't played 3D. (Saying as much, yourself) Which IMHO makes anything you say on that topic completely irrelevant. KH3D was pretty damn challenging for KH at Proud and Critical.
Sure the story has gone to buggery but the gameplay is still great and challenging.
oh dude you're right, they're procrastinating with versus. which, by extension, is extending the dev time of kh3. i don't think there's a very strong defense here.
i did not play 3D. not playing one game in the series does not make my opinion invalid, especially when i'm not directly comparing anything directly to KH3D.
but if you want to tell yourself that the gameplay is at all challenging or engaging, feel free. that's your opinion and i'll happily and wholeheartedly disagree.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I was enjoying this read and agreed with most of it until I heard mention of procrastinating over KH3, where I just stopped. Honestly, do you even know why KH3 isn't being made? Versus 13, a project that is of signifcant more importance to Square Enix as whole, that's where the MAIN KH team is focused right now, and why Osaka took over for BBS and pretty much every title after that. If we weren't getting these games, even if naturally inferior, we wouldn't be getting anything. Even if it was good, I don't think people would like waiting as long as they have since KH2 for a new KH game.
I'm going to give my best bet that Versus XIII has not been a factor behind why KH3 hasn't come out yet for a few years now. SE is a bit of a different place than when Nomura first made that statement.
I agree that if they didn't give us games, we'd be sitting here with nothing and I think something is better than years of silence.
That said, you clearly haven't played 3D. (Saying as much, yourself) Which IMHO makes anything you say on that topic completely irrelevant. KH3D was pretty damn challenging for KH at Proud and Critical.
Agreed on KH3D being challenging. It was rather refreshing to die while doing normal fights. Even at my high level I still die when walking around TWTNW if I'm not careful when fighting Dream Eaters.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
That said, you clearly haven't played 3D. (Saying as much, yourself) Which IMHO makes anything you say on that topic completely irrelevant. KH3D was pretty damn challenging for KH at Proud and Critical.
Sure the story has gone to buggery but the gameplay is still great and challenging.
it's made artificially hard tho
all that happens when you increase the difficulty in a KH game is that enemies attack more vigorously and do more damage. all you have to do is grind more and suddenly it's like you're playing on easy. enemies don't start having different behaviors and attacks and strategies that force the player to actually be good at the game.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
it's made artificially hard tho
all that happens when you increase the difficulty in a KH game is that enemies attack more vigorously and do more damage. all you have to do is grind more and suddenly it's like you're playing on easy. enemies don't start having different behaviors and attacks and strategies that force the player to actually be good at the game.
this is kind of a problem with games in general nowadays. i'm trying to think of a recent game that actually changed enemy and boss patterns on harder difficulty levels and i can't think of a single one.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I think I can agree for the most part with you on this. Just a few points I'll make myself on my opinions on things and I suppose details of what you've mentioned.
The gameplay has evolved new mechanics, but the design around those mechanics aren't all necessarily good. Reaction commands are, essentially, quick-time events you can get from mashing triangle. QTEs are a horrible thing games should just get rid of entirely. KH1 was fun because it was simple but still had strategy and patterns to look out for in enemies.
Chain of Memories implemented a truly awesome system that made you think on the fly about what you were going to do, and how that would affect what you would have to do much later in the fight. It made you build your own strategies the way you wanted to. It was flawed in the way that it made a large jump in simplicity and turned off many of the fans from the original game by making things much more complex than they had been.
And of course, the obvious reuse of worlds and the same general plotlines that were previously there, making the game rather tedious. Especially because it felt you didn't have the same freedom you had before by restricting battles to being a "touch to begin battle" and forcing you to get the correct cards to move forward.
Kingdom Hearts 2 is where they really, really turned it off for me. The gameplay was basically reduced to "mash x until you actually need to block something." That was pretty much it. The only times you had to do anything else was to use Curaga on yourself if you screwed up or run away for a minute. Oh, and drive forms if you really wanted to make things even easier for yourself.
Story-wise, yeah, it got really messy. Sure, they added some really awesome Disney movies, but they wrecked the plotline of Kingdom Hearts itself. Introducing nobodies wasn't a bad idea; fighting Organization 13 in boss fights were probably the best parts of the game. It was how you're basically confronting a problem because of somebody else's doing, who is actually you essentially. I can't describe this part too well, but you didn't feel as involved in the plot as KH1. Riku was basically the only thing I looked forward to the entire game.
Birth By Sleep (here's where I kinda disagree with you) stepped the series up a step in my opinion. The gameplay still had the simple stuff that made KH1 fun. "But didn't you just bitch about how 2 was oversimplified?" Yep. It still added a level of complexity to it with the command list though. It gave you the fun and awesome customization of Chain of Memories while, at the same time, keeping the combat down to an easy to get level. The flaw here was that bosses and AI are still pretty much pushovers aside from the extra bosses. But hey, that was me. Otherwise, this game really set the standard to me for how combat in Kingdom Hearts could be.
Story-wise, the plot was okay. Nothing too great. It definitely had great replayability though, and you didn't feel you got the full package every time you beat an ending unlike most games with multiple story perspectives. The characters all felt like old news though. It felt like the same personalities being put into multiple characters designed differently. They all fell flat, aside from Terra imo. And if we're calling them flat, he was only a bump because of how he succumbed. He was basically this game's Riku. Master Xehanort felt like your typical bad guy, which actually wasn't that bad. Vanitas was a nice step up too as well.
Re:Coded is kind of another mess to me. Gameplay was new, sure, but I didn't really find it too fun. Story was also another rehash of old stories, which I know everybody has to be fucking sick of at this point.
KH3D's gameplay was okay. I don't have much to say on this front given I only played it for a good hour or 2 on my friends and watched cutscenes for the rest. The story was kind of the fall of the series for me. It's trying to over-complicate the hell out of things, and the revelations about Org. 13 just made angry. It threw the story into a spiral for me, and it's just enough.
I don't think I've given up entirely on the series, but I certainly have low hopes for it. I can definitely agree with the series needing to return to it's roots though. That may just be me nostalgiafagging, but we'll see when 1.5 comes out and I see if I can still enjoy it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
goofy is, in all seriousness, the least stupid character in the entire series. thank you for spreading the love, taylor.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
also can i just mention how boring se makes every disney world?
every single level in the games is barren and empty with a few treasure chests in plain sight. there's no exploration, npc's, or anything to make those worlds feel alive. i always cite the example of the duke in bbs saying you frightened all the guests...in the ridiculously empty ballroom.
besides not incorporating them to the broader plot, they don't even do a good job of faithfully tying in the movies' original themes and ideas into kingdom hearts. i mean think about tarzan for example. it is a film about growing up, discovering yourself, finding out where you belong and what matters to you. those are all ideas that would like a glove in kingdom hearts which is essentially all about feelings. but deep jungle was one of the most boring worlds in the entire series.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Kinda forgot to mention this, but it's been increasingly annoying about how many less Final Fantasy cameos we're seeing in the games. TWEWY was a nice surprise, but seriously. Birth By Sleep had ONE cameo.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Kinda forgot to mention this, but it's been increasingly annoying about how many less Final Fantasy cameos we're seeing in the games. TWEWY was a nice surprise, but seriously. Birth By Sleep had ONE cameo.
I'd comment on this but I'm actually writing an editorial on this very topic soooo
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'm not one to disagree with the notion that the series is convoluted. Some of these concepts seen in recent installments seem to come out of Nomura's ass and aren't exactly original but still, I'm also one who believes the original game is given a lot more credit than it deserves and seeing it be put on such a pedestal, as well as given the sacred cow status, is a bit grating. It's seem to be a common meme: How great the original game and how the others suck.
I liked KH2 and BBS a lot better than I did the original.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| [LEFT] That’s good writing. You want to know what bad writing is? Trying to explain why Xion exists or why Ven looks Roxas. I know there are explanations in the games. [/LEFT]I don’t care[LEFT]. They are complicated and stupid and I don’t want to ever take the time to try to learn the ridiculously convoluted storyline. Stop making up stupid characters, stop including silly elements like time travel or hearts held within hearts, and just get back to the goddamn basics that made the series loveable. [/LEFT] |
I disagree with that. I personally find that the plot mysteries enigmas don't stray away from the primary themes of the series, rather they reflect them instead, although in a more abstract kind of way. In other words, the mysteries seem like a manifestation of the series' philosophies.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I cant help but agree with this article and the Goofy love.
I especially agree on the parts of the story and characters its these factors that's led to my growing distance from kh.
There's also other factors to like the lifeless worlds sure they was empty in kh1 but thinking back on it despite being empty they didn't feel entirely lifeless to me like they do now but i attribute this to nostalgia rather than reason.
The worlds dont feel connected to the overall plot either, ever since Chain of Memories its felt like all i do is hop randomly from one world to another just to get a scene of a guy in a black coat.
Then there's the lack of FF cameos......its like losing half the appeal.....
Could rant more but b*tching wont do me no good and after all kh1 wasn't perfect either (that damn camera!).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| There's also other factors to like the lifeless worlds sure they was empty in kh1 but thinking back on it despite being empty they didn't feel entirely lifeless to me like they do now but i attribute this to nostalgia rather than reason. |
well, you could explore a little bit in kh1. the platforming was pretty awkward and terrible but it gave the worlds a bit more life.
they streamlined that in kh2 and forgot to give us GOOD exploration to replace it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
well, you could explore a little bit in kh1. the platforming was pretty awkward and terrible but it gave the worlds a bit more life.
they streamlined that in kh2 and forgot to give us GOOD exploration to replace it.
That is true searching for trinities did add a bit more life to them plus some worlds in kh1 made sense as to why there was no people such as monstro, deep jungle, wonderland, hollow bastion it made sense for these worlds to lack people so its not something that crossed your mind as feeling empty.
everything in kh2 felt streamlined....
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I can agree with some of what you say, but definitely not all. Seems a bit knit picky..
Haters gon hate.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I can understand why some people are having issues with the storyline, but it's not the worst I've come across. In fact, I'm interested to see how it's going to be tied up whenever they get around to published KH3.
However, I'm getting tired of people constantly tearing down the sequels. Kingdom Hearts II is still my absolute favorite game of all time, with no exceptions, and 3D and the original are in my top ten. Did the story get convoluted? Yes, definitely. Did it make me want to stay up all night playing each game to completion only to have to wait impatiently for years and years to find out what the heck is happening next? Absolutely. The mechanics of the first game weren't all that great, and I for one didn't and don't think the Disney worlds were portrayed so much better in the first game than the others. I still get a little frustrated sometimes, like when Sora and co. are running through Notre Dame and don't run across any people, but that's no different than the complete lack of jungle creatures in Deep Jungle or the lack of fans at the tournaments in the Coliseum.
Kingdom Hearts seems to be falling into a trap within its own fanbase, a trap which other games and books have fallen into in recent years. The first game was so amazing that people don't want it to change, but they get angry when the series stays stagnant. The directors then have to attempt to balance novelty with continuity, and that's a task which is nigh impossible.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
i agree with everyone who says kh1 isn't that good of a game. it really isn't and i don't think celtis really got that across very well in his articles.
the camera is terrible, the level design was atrocious, the potential of the disney worlds was still squandered, and it had various other foibles that just added up to a very rough game. it succeeded because it ended up being a charming juxtaposition of seemingly irreconcilable things (the jrpg aesthetic of the final fantasy series with the soft western disney characters). but it was definitely not very good in terms of design.
the later games polished this a little but they don't have the same charm and didn't really make the weak concepts in the first game any better. so all in all, the series has just never been too excellent.
| Kingdom Hearts seems to be falling into a trap within its own fanbase, a trap which other games and books have fallen into in recent years. The first game was so amazing that people don't want it to change, but they get angry when the series stays stagnant. |
idk about you but i think the series has gotten very stagnant in certain respects.
days and coded are just lazy games. how many more times do they think people are going to enjoy visiting worlds from kingdom hearts 1?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
kh1 is not a good game. that is not what i'm trying to say. i'm trying to say it's a charming, very okay game.
the series as a whole is pretty mediocre lol
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Okay well Im abit yes and no with the reasons of his views. Mostly what I agree with is that the series of KH is dragged on too much, and really feels like they have milked it for all its worth. The latest games really have not appealed to me as the earlier KH games had.
So I played Kingdom Hearts as a kid. Finished it, but actualy found it abit bland. The fighting felt boring to me. Too tame. Although I loved how the Disney characters felt apart of the main story. But it still is a great game. I guess what really took the game by storm to everyone was the mixture of FF and Disney characters.
Kingdom Hearts COM was a good game. I played that on the GBA. New, interesting battle system with lots of new characters that was shrounded in mystery.
Kingdom Hearts II is what made me really fall in love with the game. I loved the main story, the new evil of the Organization and Nobodies. The introduction to a new character, Roxas. How his past was a mystery and how important he really is to Sora. Although they droped the main tie-in with the Disney characters, and the Disney worlds did feel bland. The battle system was simple, yet I loved it.Amazing attacks and combos, even if it was just button mashing X, I still loved smacking them up. Dual Weilding was just mega-awesome. It felt so badass and so fun! Reaction Commands was a nice feature in which added some pretty cool slow motion attacks. The Boss fights were epic. And finaly last...AXEL!! We got to see Axel in full action! Who doesnt love Axel???
I honestly come back to the game every once in awhile to replay it. Heck, I even bought the Final Mix version of it.
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days was a nice game too. It was good to finaly play as Roxas through the whole game. I had always felt he had a strong storyline. It was very interesting to see what the Organization was like from his view. Xion was a nice new twist, but I did still feel like she needed more character. But her role still was abit interesting. For a Nintendo DS game, the graphics were pretty good. Combat system once again was a nice change and Multiplayer was a very nice feature, espicaly being able to play as the other Organization characters.
The ending part of that game was a very sad one for me, very emotional which was well played out.
Birth By Sleep..that was abit of a mixture to me. The was the main idea/plot of the story was good, the history of the Keyblade and a more in depth look of it was interesting. I always wanted the lore of the Keyblade to be told. And it had done well in finaly hinting to us what KHIII would hold. The Graphics was also great, for a psp it had done quite well. But not really else I liked. I played all three characters and completed them. But I felt like it was quite repeative and I never made me really replay the game again at all. Some parts were too easy, and some parts made me frustrated enough to throw it away.
After that, I havent really played another KH game(except for RE:COM). Iv read and look videos up on Coded and KH3DS, but Coded felt like it was milked to just to make money. There was not really much told from the main storyline. It didnt really tell us fully on what is yet to come (KHIII) except for things that we really already knew. Since this Sora wasnt the real Sora, I felt like it really didnt matter what happened to him, he was just data afterall.
KH3DS is what I felt has gone abit too far. Yea it finaly set us the full story line for us for KHIII, but the whole TimeTravel thing seems...just not KH. Although I liked how Xemnas finaly explained the true purpose of the Organization, and how the most of the Organization are now back to normal. But thats really about it. I dont really like this whole "Dream Creatures" thing. They look too cute and cuddly to be evil. Didnt seem much of a threat. Nothing else I was interested in and nothing of any new features within the game made me remotely want to play it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
so basically I'm the only person here who plays the series for the original characters/plot/whatever and doesn't really care about the Disney stuff
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
@ Celtis
Kind of glad you made this one I will go out and admit I'm one of those people that give KH1 to much praise, but I do know if I go back and play it again. It might get knocked down a few points cause it's been at least 5-9 years since I fully played through it and beat it.
I've been saying for years after the craptastic title that was KH2 that Nomura has been pulling stuff out his ass, and with some of the stupid stuff I've heard from this site it pretty much reinforced that he indeed has. There are some titles I haven't played like Days for instance, but after hearing from my roommates b**ch and moan about how terrible it was and how horrible the character's were In stayed away, and for good reason.
Again looking back over the series timeline from 2002-2012 it really is a mediocre series, but to be fair I've played worse titles than many in this series I'd rather play 358/2 Days for example then anyone give me Star Ocean IV: The Last Hope(Yes another wonderful craptastic game out of Square's Ass).
Edit: @ Ultima Spark
I guess you are. Thing is though without the Disney stuff the original characters are pretty much lackluster besides Riku, Terra, Aqua, and a few others.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Personally, I don't think the story is too convoluted in that you can't explain/understand everything. Days would've probably been better off a-la Advent Children, same with coded. They could've been told as "webisodes" or something like that. They'd add to the story without the chore of playing through those boring, linear missions/worlds/backdoors/what have you. KH1 had the aesthetics for worlds down and KH2 added a bit to that (KH2FM: the Cavern of Remembrance really added a lot of depth to Radiant Garden (no pun intended), I suppose they'd need to find a way to explain this.) Additionally I really liked the gameplay of BBS and think this set the record even higher, but still needs a bit of tweaking, generally having this in the style of KH1/KH2.
The story, like I said before, is not all that dragged out, at least for me. BUT the games make it feel that way, I think it's because the way people are looking at it is gameplay+story when really it's just story, pieces from Days and coded, coded's only important part was the end where Sora finds out the data in him and then that's brought up again in 3D where Ansem appears in front of Riku and shows him what it was, etc.
So pretty much, what I'm trying to say is that Days and Coded are the only negatives of the whole series, to be honest. I don't see how you could stop loving the series.
And obviously the only reason why those worlds are so barren, in BBS and 3D is because they're on handhelds that didn't support the capacity of detail the original movies had. Hopefully with KH going back to consoles this will be remedied.
And I really don't think Goofy is suitable for a protagonist, except in this game.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| And obviously the only reason why those worlds are so barren, in BBS and 3D is because they're on handhelds that didn't support the capacity of detail the original movies had. |
kh2 was also barren and empty.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
The strongly implied reason for the worlds being empty from the plot's point of view is that everyone tries to stay indoors because of the monsters. As the series progresses they imply it less then it just feels weird at times. Like the world's characters stop mentioning the monsters or they do at awkward times and we have moments like in BbS where in Castle of Dreams I think it was mentioned that there were monsters about but they were still throwing a ball (because the king wanting his son to get laid) and the Duke was worried about all the "guests". Wut?
I get the reason plot wise but sometimes the handling is just weird. If you're worried about the invisible guests being hurt by monsters because you rounded everyone up in one convenient spot, don't throw a ball? Them little things. It's these kinds of things you look at in retrospect that make you shake your head. U.U
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
thank you for the read. I think the story is a little complicated especially in KH3D, but it's going to take off in KH3. Since you haven't played it yet, I won't spoil anything, let's just say that the Disney aspects are going to be EXTREMELY important in KH3. this might fix the worlds are not connected to the main plot problem, but time will tell. good job on this editorial
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
kh2 was also barren and empty.
I actually have come with the conclusion that if the games, specifically the original Kingdom Hearts and the second installment, ever wanted to meet its maximum potential in regards to NPC and worlds that didn't feel barren and empty, they may have needed to put a additional disc to expand on that. Think back to Final Fantasy on its PlayStation (1) days although it may not even be the case, as I'm assuming a PS2 disc can carry more information/date then multiple PS1 discs. What types of discs were the first numbered installments put on, anyway? I'm curious how much data/information they contained and if not adding NPCs was just laziness.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I actually have come with the conclusion that if the games, specifically the original Kingdom Hearts and the second installment, ever wanted to meet its maximum potential in regards to NPC and worlds that didn't feel barren and empty, they may have needed to put a additional disc to expand on that. Think back to Final Fantasy on its PlayStation (1) days although it may not even be the case, as I'm assuming a PS2 disc can carry more information/date then multiple PS1 discs. What types of discs were the first numbered installments put on, anyway? I'm curious how much data/information they contained and if not adding NPCs was just laziness.
The PS2 discs (dvds?) can withstand quiet a few NPCs. FFX is older than KH and could handle an abundance of them fine, with KH its just a mixture of plot reasons and laziness.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
If I'm being completely honest, I think all criticisms against the fighting style are invalid. People are so quick to praise a game like Zelda, but honestly is there that much difference between Zelda and KH? To fight in Zelda, you're still just mashing a button to hit things, occasionally using another button to cast magic, and locking on while grappling with a terrible camera. The same could be said for KH. So why do people praise Zelda, but scorn KH? It makes no sense. At their core, they are extremely similar. People have even called KH Sony's answer to Zelda.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
If I'm being completely honest, I think all criticisms against the fighting style are invalid. People are so quick to praise a game like Zelda, but honestly is there that much difference between Zelda and KH? To fight in Zelda, you're still just mashing a button to hit things, occasionally using another button to cast magic, and locking on while grappling with a terrible camera. The same could be said for KH. So why do people praise Zelda, but scorn KH? It makes no sense. At their core, they are extremely similar. People have even called KH Sony's answer to Zelda.
As someone who doesn't play Zelda, I have no idea. KH having a similar combat system as another game doesn't make the complaints any less valid. It can be a dry button masher.
Also, not trying to take a shot at the OP. I honestly didn't even know you were a Zelda fan until I saw your sig. But Zelda suffers from most of the same problems KH does, so in my opinion at least, your article is a bit hypocritical.
As someone who doesn't play Zelda, I have no idea. KH having a slimier combat system as another game doesn't make the complaints any less valid. It can be a dry button masher.
Oh, no I totally realize that. That's valid. I just don't understand it. Zelda has received almost unanimous acclaim when it is extremely flawed, even more so than KH in my opinion.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Also, not trying to take a shot at the OP. I honestly didn't even know you were a Zelda fan until I saw your sig. But Zelda suffers from most of the same problems KH does, so in my opinion at least, your article is a bit hypocritical.
Really, please stop bringing Zelda into this. It has nothing what so ever to do with KH or the article and you're only going to cause a shit storm based on the OPs likes. It's not a compare and contrast article, it's an article on the OP's opinion about KH.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Oh, no I totally realize that. That's valid. I just don't understand it. Zelda has received almost unanimous acclaim when it is extremely flawed, even more so than KH in my opinion.
Isn't that just a case of personal taste/opinion after all?
KH has also received much "acclaim" (and yes, that includes titles other than the worshipped KH 1) or it wouldn't be as successful as it is.
I'm not around in Zelda forums but I tend to believe that over there there's also some critic thrown out at that franchise.
Heck, even when talking about "convoluted plot" in KH, doesn't Zelda have the same with a whole flurry of different timelines, the same main villain popping up again and again (Ganondorf) just like Xehanort in KH?
Or the whole Metal Gear-series, isn't that going into "convoluted plot territory" as well?
The thing is that critic on those series is most likely to be voiced in places dedicated to them, so as this is mostly a KH-themed place it's logical that the KH-critic takes precedence here.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Really, please stop bringing Zelda into this. It has nothing what so ever to do with KH or the article and you're only going to cause a shit storm based on the OPs likes. It's not a compare and contrast article, it's an article on the OP's opinion about KH.
I don't think that's very fair. I never outright insulted Zelda blindly for the sake of pissing of the OP. I calmly brought up my confusion, and I think it's very relevant to the article. The OP claims that they went out and experienced other games and that changed their opinion on KH. These other games doubtlessly included Zelda, making it relevant. I'm not bringing it up to be a dick, I just want to understand why the OP likes one thing, but dislikes something that is so similar.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I don't think that's very fair. I never outright insulted Zelda blindly for the sake of pissing of the OP. I calmly brought up my confusion, and I think it's very relevant to the article. The OP claims that they went out and experienced other games and that changed their opinion on KH. These other games doubtlessly included Zelda, making it relevant. I'm not bringing it up to be a dick, I just want to understand why the OP likes one thing, but dislikes something that is so similar.
Thing about Zelda they keep the basics intact and stays true to their roots. Whereas KH like the OP was saying has not.
I will also add when you actually experience other games within the genre and stack up and compare them KH really doesn't seem that special it does stand out, but not as much as it use to.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I disagree and agree with this. While I agree that KH1 was the main magic of the series it was i agree but that was likely even before it came out 10 years ago. Most 1st games of intended series r usually awesome and half the time r better then their sequels so i dont disgust the other games by that factor too much. Anyways im surprised by this review u didnt like KH2 very much I loved it i thought it was even better than the 1st in some areas. More characters, more and even better at times worlds, Expanded the story in a greater way, the animation and fighting grew better the only thing i regret about the game that if they could fix now I'd give it a 10/10 would be if they can make it more difficult and challenging like the 1st game did. I did think the 1st was a little harder especially my first time 10 years ago. BBS was great I loved it idk y u didnt it was a nice break outside of sora adding more of the universe out their showing their were other keyblade weilders and explained xehanort's story. It was a great and i stand by it. days and coded i agree r not needed never liked them. 3D I havent played that and idk if i will because at the moment i dont have the money to buy a 3DS and it but it looks pretty good. ANd while I'll give you that the story has gotten bigger and even confusing I still trust in Nomura can wrap things up entirely and help peoople for KH3 understand. I know people who have only played the main 2 games and i've explained whats happening, they're not that confused. i guess maybe u dont understand the story and thats y its confusing to U!!!!! U got to read! and explain it simpley.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
kh2 was also barren and empty.
With what Ruran had to say, Heartless were roaming about, remember that one cutscene in KH1 where the guy got his heart extracted? That's the one.
I remember Timeless River having NPCs, Twilight Town too and Halloween Town. Pride Lands was ABUNDANT with NPCs, at least at the Pride Rock map. Nevertheless, the main issue here is the handheld games since they had really expansive maps.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
For the most part, I disagree with this article, although I can see where you're coming from.
For one thing, with the convoluted plots, this is something I actually love about the series. I think it's all opinion- do you prefer simple or convoluted, overarching plots? I loved Kingdom Hearts, though mostly for its inclusion of Disney worlds and characters. But the point where I truly began falling in love with the Kingdom Hearts franchise was after playing KHII. This was where the story, I felt, went even farther beyond the worlds, and had plots that became more in depth and involved much more. The Organization, nobodies, Roxas, and in depth journey Riku (and later, Sora) would have to go through. Sure, I am disappointed in the involvement of Disney characters/worlds growing less and less (although I'm hoping and sure that this will change in KHIII, unless Nomura is just giving us false hints in 3D), but I for one have always loved plots that made you think about it afterward. "What if...." "What happened there...?" "Can someone explain this..." It's just how I am overall- when it comes to plots in movies, books, or video games.
As for lack of NPCs and the Disney worlds feeling dry and barren, I can only agree with this comment for the handheld games. But it is something I've noticed that they've left out ever since KHII, and before 3D came out, I was REALLY hoping they would fix this problem. So I was pretty disappointed to find 3D even worst than BBS when it came to the feel of the worlds and NPCs... I REALLY hope this problem is fixed when KH is brought back onto the large tv consoles. KHII never had this problem for me- I mean, there were people in Twilight Town, you could talk to the soldiers in Land of Dragons, there were the lions in Pride Lands, etc. and there were still shops with actual people(not just the moogles standing around. xD)
In terms of gameplay, it really depends on how much of a skilled gamer you are, I think. I never was that good of a gamer- I never beat KH when I was younger (though I've recently given it another go. We'll see if I can beat it this time!), though it remains to be the only KH game I haven't beat. KHII was reasonably difficult to me, especially Xaldin's battle (never would have survived or beat him if not for Mickey!), although the other games, I have to admit, did get easier (though I have a habit of grinding, not being a very good player otherwise). But I still enjoyed them, nevertheless. The reaction commands game you something else to do, and abilities added variety to the battle, even if you're constantly smashing x at times. (but deck commands change this, as you're going through your deck and making strategies to how to use commands rather than just pressing x. In BBS and 3D, I find myself going through my deck more often than smashing the X button).
I admit that in 3D, the whole time travel thing was probably the most bizarre thing they've done to the game. But unless something goes completely haywire, and Nomura is unable to fit all the pieces together, I don't think my love of the game franchise is going anywhere. For these past five years or so, in the time I've truly been in love with the KH series, what's kept me going is not the plot (I only realized this recently), but the characters. I've fallen in love with many of the characters and their sad(and even often sappy) storylines, whether this is Sora, the happy-go lucky hero, Riku, the previously confused best friend, Roxas, the nobody who was never meant to exist, Xion, the nobody's copy (maybe unnecessary, but her existent explains even more why Roxas hated the Org. so much), Terra, the regretful and guilty hero, and Aqua (<3<3), the tragic hero who gave herself up to save a friend, only to created the villains we've fought between KHI and KHII. Okay, that last part of listing the characters was a little corny, but for me, it's the characters I've fallen in love with and have continued to go through the series, just to see them again. (I admit I was disappointed in the highly short cameos by everyone in 3D, except Roxas. I was hoping for more...). T_T
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| If I'm being completely honest, I think all criticisms against the fighting style are invalid. People are so quick to praise a game like Zelda, but honestly is there that much difference between Zelda and KH? To fight in Zelda, you're still just mashing a button to hit things, occasionally using another button to cast magic, and locking on while grappling with a terrible camera. The same could be said for KH. So why do people praise Zelda, but scorn KH? It makes no sense. At their core, they are extremely similar. People have even called KH Sony's answer to Zelda. |
This is just silly (btw people saying kh is sony's answer to zelda is one of the most pants-on-head retarded things i've ever heard, you can't even begin to compare the two in terms of just about everything). If you are going to say zelda and kh have the same combat, you may as well say every action game where you hit things is the same battle system, which is just a ridiculous claim.
- Zelda combat doesn't have the same elaborate, flashy combos the KH system does. it's a much simpler system.
- There isn't an abundance of QTE TRIANGLE TRIANGLE TRIANGLE WIN THE GAME in Zelda.
- A lot of Zelda enemies (bosses, mostly) are like puzzles, you don't just mindlessly bash buttons to win. You have to interact with the environment, solve a riddle, and do something so you can actually target the boss.
- the combat is a much more important part of kh than it is in zelda. zelda is much more of a puzzle/exploration/adventure series, in KH pretty much the only thing you do outside of cutscenes is fight and maybe go to a shop.
Yes the combat in zelda games isn't particularly difficult, and neither is KH's. but they are not the same combat whatsoever.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
If I'm being completely honest, I think all criticisms against the fighting style are invalid. People are so quick to praise a game like Zelda, but honestly is there that much difference between Zelda and KH? To fight in Zelda, you're still just mashing a button to hit things, occasionally using another button to cast magic, and locking on while grappling with a terrible camera. The same could be said for KH. So why do people praise Zelda, but scorn KH? It makes no sense. At their core, they are extremely similar. People have even called KH Sony's answer to Zelda.
Am I the only one wondering who in god's name these 'people' are that would call KH Sony's answer to Zelda.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Zelda suffers from most of the same problems KH does, so in my opinion at least, your article is a bit hypocritical.
The core problem with KH is the dumb overarching plot, which is absent in the Zelda series where little emphasis is placed on plot. The closest thing you have to it would probably be the Hyrulean timeline, but the Zelda games are otherwise very much standalone. Since each entry is standalone, you don't have to worry about Zelda's cast becoming unnecessarily big; whereas, you have groups like Organization XIII (as well as their Somebody counterparts) which consist of mostly throwaway characters and fangirl fodder.
Nomura just has too much on his plate. Zelda is a much simpler series in comparison, and quite frankly I don't know how or why it's even a comparison to begin with. It's definitely not a fair one.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
For the most part, I disagree with this article, although I can see where you're coming from.
For one thing, with the convoluted plots, this is something I actually love about the series. I think it's all opinion- do you prefer simple or convoluted, overarching plots? I loved Kingdom Hearts, though mostly for its inclusion of Disney worlds and characters. But the point where I truly began falling in love with the Kingdom Hearts franchise was after playing KHII. This was where the story, I felt, went even farther beyond the worlds, and had plots that became more in depth and involved much more. The Organization, nobodies, Roxas, and in depth journey Riku (and later, Sora) would have to go through. Sure, I am disappointed in the involvement of Disney characters/worlds growing less and less (although I'm hoping and sure that this will change in KHIII, unless Nomura is just giving us false hints in 3D), but I for one have always loved plots that made you think about it afterward. "What if...." "What happened there...?" "Can someone explain this..." It's just how I am overall- when it comes to plots in movies, books, or video games.
As for lack of NPCs and the Disney worlds feeling dry and barren, I can only agree with this comment for the handheld games. But it is something I've noticed that they've left out ever since KHII, and before 3D came out, I was REALLY hoping they would fix this problem. So I was pretty disappointed to find 3D even worst than BBS when it came to the feel of the worlds and NPCs... I REALLY hope this problem is fixed when KH is brought back onto the large tv consoles. KHII never had this problem for me- I mean, there were people in Twilight Town, you could talk to the soldiers in Land of Dragons, there were the lions in Pride Lands, etc. and there were still shops with actual people(not just the moogles standing around. xD)
In terms of gameplay, it really depends on how much of a skilled gamer you are, I think. I never was that good of a gamer- I never beat KH when I was younger (though I've recently given it another go. We'll see if I can beat it this time!), though it remains to be the only KH game I haven't beat. KHII was reasonably difficult to me, especially Xaldin's battle (never would have survived or beat him if not for Mickey!), although the other games, I have to admit, did get easier (though I have a habit of grinding, not being a very good player otherwise). But I still enjoyed them, nevertheless. The reaction commands game you something else to do, and abilities added variety to the battle, even if you're constantly smashing x at times. (but deck commands change this, as you're going through your deck and making strategies to how to use commands rather than just pressing x. In BBS and 3D, I find myself going through my deck more often than smashing the X button).
I admit that in 3D, the whole time travel thing was probably the most bizarre thing they've done to the game. But unless something goes completely haywire, and Nomura is unable to fit all the pieces together, I don't think my love of the game franchise is going anywhere. For these past five years or so, in the time I've truly been in love with the KH series, what's kept me going is not the plot (I only realized this recently), but the characters. I've fallen in love with many of the characters and their sad(and even often sappy) storylines, whether this is Sora, the happy-go lucky hero, Riku, the previously confused best friend, Roxas, the nobody who was never meant to exist, Xion, the nobody's copy (maybe unnecessary, but her existent explains even more why Roxas hated the Org. so much), Terra, the regretful and guilty hero, and Aqua (<3<3), the tragic hero who gave herself up to save a friend, only to created the villains we've fought between KHI and KHII. Okay, that last part of listing the characters was a little corny, but for me, it's the characters I've fallen in love with and have continued to go through the series, just to see them again. (I admit I was disappointed in the highly short cameos by everyone in 3D, except Roxas. I was hoping for more...). T_T
As far as the Gameplay goes for KH2 you don't have to be that skilled of a gamer hell I know I'm not the best, and I still beat that game only dying once.
As for QTE giving you something else to do yeah press triangle that's it. Quite honestly people try to say how great KH2 1000 heartless battle was it sucked no one just wants to admit that. Compared to what I saw at E3 2003 or 2004 I forgot when that trailer came out it left a lot to be desired.
As for the argument of NPC's my take on it will be this once you've played games like FFX hell even FFXII(didn't really like it) The KH series can piss you off with the lack of NPC's for their worlds. Like someone said in KH1 they would at least give you hints that people do exist in the game like in Traverse Town someone pointed out the guy who got his heart stolen. I can't really remember anything like that for any other game.
One thing maybe I skipped this that Celtis didn't touch on was the whole mess with the enemies right now I know about Heartless, Nobodies, Unversed, and it's Dream Eater's right you see where I'm going with this. Basically way too many enemies and never really closed the book on say Heartless.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Also, not trying to take a shot at the OP. I honestly didn't even know you were a Zelda fan until I saw your sig. But Zelda suffers from most of the same problems KH does, so in my opinion at least, your article is a bit hypocritical.
Oh, no I totally realize that. That's valid. I just don't understand it. Zelda has received almost unanimous acclaim when it is extremely flawed, even more so than KH in my opinion.
There are so many reasons that Zelda is a much better series than Kingdom Hearts and that has almost nothing to do with the combat system. Nevertheless, I disagree that Zelda games promote button mashing. I think a lot of enemies and bosses take a lot more planning or use of different items to defeat them. At its core, the systems are very similar, but subtle nuances make the difference here.
Furthermore, I don't understand how this is hypocritical. I'm a huge Zelda fan, yes, but that doesn't mean I don't readily admit its flaws. Talk to me about any of the newer Zelda games and I'll give you a list of problems that they're plagued with. This editorial is, by definition, an opinion piece about Kingdom Hearts. If you want to discuss Zelda, I'd be more than happy to oblige in the Zelda thread.
Thanks!
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
On the Destiny Island...
Where i was born.
100 heartless, 100 kills
Lu lu la la lu~
Even a mouse's eye... Lock On!
Even on your heart...LOCK ON!!!
The man that came from Destiny Island.
Lu lu. lu lu lu la la~
You better run and hide.
Sor-Sor-Sor-
SOOORRRAAAKIIIINGUUUUU!
Long Live Kingdom Hearts...In Your Hearts~
-Sorakingu
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
People always tell square to go back to the basics of KH for KH3. How do you do that exactly? I mean look where we are now in the series. We've got all these questions, plot twists,etc. You can't really just abandon those things now. I agree it's gone off the deep end in plot,characters,etc. But I don't think abandoning everything and making it like KH1 would be a good thing now.
My views as a whole on the plot, It's not that good anymore.1 was simple and fine,2 took it to the max with it's complicated story,Coded was just useless as all,358/2 while having some interesting points really shouldn't have been a solo game,COM was actually okay imo,3D was good until the last level and BBS while having really lifeless worlds and characters mostly had a nice plot that took the series into some depressing dark areas. And about the Princesses, why don't they play huge roles in the series. I think we've only seen them all together in 1 and briefly mentioned in 2. Now there are lots of elements that I still love in the series. The interaction between the characters and the Disney ones,sometimes they'll be a great moment that makes me feel something(like in 3D a lot of times) or a likable character. In BBS, Erauqs,Aqua and Vanitas were really the only good characters I found. Although the BBS cast really is basically Sora, Riku and Kairi with slight changes What they did to the original cast is a mixed bag. I've loved Riku's development over the games, but really hate what they did to Sora and Kairi. Roxas and Xion while their Stories are depressing really starting to get on my nerves. So yeah story wise it's a bit of a mess.
Gameplay wise aside from coded and 358/2 days, I've been fine with it. Nothing to offensive(aside from KH2's oversimplified gameplay.) 3D to me is the pinnacle of the games. It's fun, addicting and has some decent platforming. Although still mad about lifeless worlds. I even like the Dream eaters. Honestly the whole "to cute" argument I find ridiculous.
So yeah, 3 has some things to change if they want to make the game more accessible,entertaining, engaging, and not stale.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Kudos for this thread, Celtis, I pretty much completely agree with every point you make :P
I'm very glad I'm not the only one infuriated by what KH has become recently, and how most fans still lap it all up!
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
People always tell square to go back to the basics of KH for KH3. How do you do that exactly? I mean look where we are now in the series. We've got all these questions, plot twists,etc. You can't really just abandon those things now. I agree it's gone off the deep end in plot,characters,etc. But I don't think abandoning everything and making it like KH1 would be a good thing now.
My views as a whole on the plot, It's not that good anymore.1 was simple and fine,2 took it to the max with it's complicated story,Coded was just useless as all,358/2 while having some interesting points really shouldn't have been a solo game,COM was actually okay imo,3D was good until the last level and BBS while having really lifeless worlds and characters mostly had a nice plot that took the series into some depressing dark areas. And about the Princesses, why don't they play huge roles in the series. I think we've only seen them all together in 1 and briefly mentioned in 2. Now there are lots of elements that I still love in the series. The interaction between the characters and the Disney ones,sometimes they'll be a great moment that makes me feel something(like in 3D a lot of times) or a likable character. In BBS, Erauqs,Aqua and Vanitas were really the only good characters I found. Although the BBS cast really is basically Sora, Riku and Kairi with slight changes What they did to the original cast is a mixed bag. I've loved Riku's development over the games, but really hate what they did to Sora and Kairi. Roxas and Xion while their Stories are depressing really starting to get on my nerves. So yeah story wise it's a bit of a mess.
Gameplay wise aside from coded and 358/2 days, I've been fine with it. Nothing to offensive(aside from KH2's oversimplified gameplay.) 3D to me is the pinnacle of the games. It's fun, addicting and has some decent platforming. Although still mad about lifeless worlds. I even like the Dream eaters. Honestly the whole "to cute" argument I find ridiculous.
So yeah, 3 has some things to change if they want to make the game more accessible,entertaining, engaging, and not stale.
I agree with most of this. I like you. And welcome to the forums.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
On the Destiny Island...
Where i was born.
100 heartless, 100 kills
Lu lu la la lu~
Even a mouse's eye... Lock On!
Even on your heart...LOCK ON!!!
The man that came from Destiny Island.
Lu lu. lu lu lu la la~
You better run and hide.
Sor-Sor-Sor-
SOOORRRAAAKIIIINGUUUUU!
Long Live Kingdom Hearts...In Your Hearts~
-Sorakingu
It wouldn't hurt to say something relevant to the discussion. I'd delete this, but it's your first post so I thought I'd give you a warning first.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
tl;dr
why don't you go admin tlozinsider.com or something?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
As far as the Gameplay goes for KH2 you don't have to be that skilled of a gamer hell I know I'm not the best, and I still beat that game only dying once.
As for QTE giving you something else to do yeah press triangle that's it. Quite honestly people try to say how great KH2 1000 heartless battle was it sucked no one just wants to admit that. Compared to what I saw at E3 2003 or 2004 I forgot when that trailer came out it left a lot to be desired.
Well, that actually says a lot- I know I'm not the worst gamer, but I'm far from the best- and I died plenty of times in KH2. Like I said, there's such a huge range in gaming skill level- I have a few friends who never beat Kingdom Hearts I because it was so hard, and then I read posts of those who didn't think KH was that hard at all.
And I actually loved the 1000 heartless battle- it's was a nice touch that made it feel really "war-like," and sure, they made it easier with the reaction commands, but you didn't have to use it if you really wanted more of a challenge. It's all opinion- I loved the 1000 heartless battle for what it was worth.
Like I said, it's all on a basis of one's opinion. Those who always prefer the more simplistic approach won't like the way Kingdom Hearts is going. I'm not going to bash on that- I can see why people are hating on KH's progress in that case. But it's also true that the progress may be favored by others as well, like me, who enjoy the twists and convoluted plots, as well as extensions that give more insight on specific characters.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Yea, I've been feeling a lil eh about the game too recently. The whole dream eater thing on KH3D was so pointless to me. A lot of the things that happens in the story are starting to feel pointless. I agree that I would enjoy a good simple story again, however, I do like some of Organization 13's characters and I would think that maybe if squareEnix wants to get more serious and dark with the series that they should just make a whole new separate game with the non Disney characters. I really wanna see Sora get older, I wanna see how everything ends but honestly I think I want it to end more sooner than later. Like you said, the whole Disney thing can only go but so far, I mean whats next Sore visits the fox and the hound's world lol? I just wish that the characters grew with us and that the story kept its simplicity.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Like I said, it's all on a basis of one's opinion. Those who always prefer the more simplistic approach won't like the way Kingdom Hearts is going. I'm not going to bash on that- I can see why people are hating on KH's progress in that case. But it's also true that the progress may be favored by others as well, like me, who enjoy the twists and convoluted plots, as well as extensions that give more insight on specific characters.
I don't think convoluted plots have ever been something to be heralded. There's a way to write a great story with underlying plots and themes that add to its depth and complexity. Celtis touched on this very idea when he mentioned the Riku and Mickey plot lines in the original Kingdom Hearts. Despite the story not being EXTREMELY spectacular, those side additions added another sense of level to this "boy-save world, coming of age" concept.
And I wish they did more with the POH line. It was just disregarded following KH. KH2 had virtually no mention of it and the POHs (like Ariel) just went about their merry way as though nothing happened. It's like they completely wrote that out. NOW this is coming from a person who hasn't touched BBS (with a 10-ft pole) so I'm not entirely sure how they handled Snow, Cinderella, and Aurora. Either way, it's just something that creates a little bit of discrepancies.
I guess my main gripe is the loss of the Disney and FF over/undertones that made KH so unique. It's no longer a cool conglomeration of two very different ideas; its just a very overly complicated plot that lost sight of its roots. It's a little self-indulgent to be honest.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Yea, I've been feeling a lil eh about the game too recently. The whole dream eater thing on KH3D was so pointless to me. A lot of the things that happens in the story are starting to feel pointless. I agree that I would enjoy a good simple story again, however, I do like some of Organization 13's characters and I would think that maybe if squareEnix wants to get more serious and dark with the series that they should just make a whole new separate game with the non Disney characters. I really wanna see Sora get older, I wanna see how everything ends but honestly I think I want it to end more sooner than later. Like you said, the whole Disney thing can only go but so far, I mean whats next Sore visits the fox and the hound's world lol? I just wish that the characters grew with us and that the story kept its simplicity.
Kingdom Hearts wouldn't be Kingdom Hearts without Disney. If Square Enix to decided to abandon Disney, the non-Disney material wouldn't have much to stand on. It's pretty amusing to hear people keep complaining about the series needing to be dark and serious. I get the impression that such demand is for some individuals who feel ashamed of playing a game with Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Goofy, and etc... or perhaps are bothered by the perception playing a kiddie game.
One thing I find interesting too are those complaining about the lack Final Fantasy characters not being in recent games. Final Fantasy characters, for the most part, almost ways have been reduced to cameos and what not. This series, IMHO, isn't really much of a cross over with Final Fantasy to begin with and if you think about it, it's only the hand held games that has suffered from this. The original and II had huge amount of characters, and it's safe to assume Kingdom Hearts III will see reasonable amount of characters too. Funny, I recall when Kingdom Hearts II came out, some folks were complaining of using the same characters from FFVII and FFVIIII and that we needed others from different installments. Final Fantasy in Kingdom Hearts seemed to be centered on those specific games. It's pretty hard to relate to folks in that regard.
My issue with the franchise has been mostly the console spread and side games, really and, as I mentioned, concepts being pulled of Nomura's ass but that's it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| Like I said, it's all on a basis of one's opinion. Those who always prefer the more simplistic approach won't like the way Kingdom Hearts is going. I'm not going to bash on that- I can see why people are hating on KH's progress in that case. But it's also true that the progress may be favored by others as well, like me, who enjoy the twists and convoluted plots, as well as extensions that give more insight on specific characters. |
There is nothing wrong with a complex plot...the problem is when it becomes unnecessarily complex in a terrible way where it does not add depth or anything of interest to the story, which is exactly what is happening to Kingdom Hearts. It's not a question of preference of simple stories vs complex ones.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
My worthless two cents:
KH1 was great; challenging, captivating, charming. It remains my favorite game in the series, as well as my favorite game of all time. Also, I don't understand the camera hate. I played through without even realizing there WAS a camera you could control, and after I found it, I loved it, more so than any other camera mechanics in the series (on that note, I detest KH2's camera). Except maybe Days'. Which brings me to my next point.
I LOVED Days. Loved it. I loved exploring the backstory of previously established characters, and you know what else? I loved Xion. I went into that game believing she would be worthless and useless and came away sympathizing with her probably more than any other character. I enjoyed the gameplay, the awful graphics, and the story. It is my second-favorite entry.
In general, I like the button mashing KH is known for. It's perfect for someone like me, who cares more about plot than gameplay anyway. Maybe I just don't know what a 'good' game is, but last I checked, that's a subjective term. KH is entirely good to me. But moving on.
Kingdom Hearts has indeed changed over the years, but I don't think it's lost the feel and atmosphere I originally adored about it. Or, well, I didn't think that until I played 3D. Now, I'm not entirely sure. I guess for me it'll depend on how much they use the time traveling element in the future, because, like someone's already said, it just doesn't fit in the universe well, or at least my interpretation of it.
I couldn't care less about the lack of Final Fantasy cameos in recent games (Why should I? This isn't Final Fantasy. There's nothing wrong with a game standing on its own without relying on cameos by famous characters). They are not what make KH memorable for me. The actual original story is. The plot is in and of itself a puzzle, one I am eagerly anticipating the solution of. I don't care if I have to wait another five years for KH3. I'll be here, loving what I’ve got, flaws and all.
Oh, and one last thing: I hate Zelda.
That is all.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| . Also, I don't understand the camera hate. I played through without even realizing there WAS a camera you could control, and after I found it, I loved it, more so than any other camera mechanics in the series (on that note, I detest KH2's camera). |
You're allowed to have preferences, but in terms of objective game design, KH2's camera is better because it's much easier to control and actually lets you see what you are doing. This is not something you can argue.
| I couldn't care less about the lack of Final Fantasy cameos in recent games (Why should I? This isn't Final Fantasy. There's nothing wrong with a game standing on its own without relying on cameos by famous characters). |
Are you familiar with how Kingdom Hearts was originally pitched to people? It was sold as Disney meets Final Fantasy. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but the fact is that the FF-esque JRPG aesthetic and character cameos were part of what sold the game to a lot of people. By straying further and further away from this, the games just betray the expectations of people who got into the series that way.
I've also gotten into how I think the Disney aspect in the series is being grossly mishandled, so really, what do you have left? personally, i think the kh original plot is sophomoric and poorly written, filled with juvenile dialogue and bad characterization. i don't know why anyone would stick around just for that.
| Maybe I just don't know what a 'good' game is, but last I checked, that's a subjective term. KH is entirely good to me. But moving on. |
Enjoyment is pretty much entirely subjective. Game design isn't. I would not say Kingdom Hearts games are very well-designed.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
My worthless two cents:
KH1 was great; challenging, captivating, charming. It remains my favorite game in the series, as well as my favorite game of all time. Also, I don't understand the camera hate. I played through without even realizing there WAS a camera you could control, and after I found it, I loved it, more so than any other camera mechanics in the series (on that note, I detest KH2's camera). Except maybe Days'. Which brings me to my next point.
I LOVED Days. Loved it. I loved exploring the backstory of previously established characters, and you know what else? I loved Xion. I went into that game believing she would be worthless and useless and came away sympathizing with her probably more than any other character. I enjoyed the gameplay, the awful graphics, and the story. It is my second-favorite entry.
In general, I like the button mashing KH is known for. It's perfect for someone like me, who cares more about plot than gameplay anyway. Maybe I just don't know what a 'good' game is, but last I checked, that's a subjective term. KH is entirely good to me. But moving on.
Kingdom Hearts has indeed changed over the years, but I don't think it's lost the feel and atmosphere I originally adored about it. Or, well, I didn't think that until I played 3D. Now, I'm not entirely sure. I guess for me it'll depend on how much they use the time traveling element in the future, because, like someone's already said, it just doesn't fit in the universe well, or at least my interpretation of it.
I couldn't care less about the lack of Final Fantasy cameos in recent games (Why should I? This isn't Final Fantasy. There's nothing wrong with a game standing on its own without relying on cameos by famous characters). They are not what make KH memorable for me. The actual original story is. The plot is in and of itself a puzzle, one I am eagerly anticipating the solution of. I don't care if I have to wait another five years for KH3. I'll be here, loving what I’ve got, flaws and all.
Oh, and one last thing: I hate Zelda.
That is all.
I agree with you in regards to the Final Fantasy aspect. I mentioned in my previous post that the characters have always been cameos in this franchise and Kingdom Hearts is definitely NOT as cross over with Final Fantasy. One thing Nomura and Square Enix do get credit, from me at least, is they make very good non-Disney based worlds. I would actually prefer if they put more effort into that and find a way to integrate Disney to the general storyline. FF cameos can be seen as a secondary issue.
| but the fact is that the FF-esque JRPG aesthetic and character cameos were part of what sold the game to a lot of people. By straying further and further away from this, the games just betray the expectations of people who got into the series that way. |
Then those types of fans really should've jumped ship a long time ago, honestly. Those character cameos have mostly always been from Final Fantasy VII and VIII. Last time I checked there are 13 installments and they can't use other FF characters that aren't from different installments?. The only games that truly have suffered in the lack of Final Fantasy characters have been, at this point, hand-helds, that have been mostly been the side games. The numbered installments, the original and II, always have had a sizable amount of characters from Final Fantasy. III will mostly likely go back to its "traditional roots". I really think some people are being dramatic about the lack FF and exaggerating the so-called sway it as well.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
You're allowed to have preferences, but in terms of objective game design, KH2's camera is better because it's much easier to control and actually lets you see what you are doing. This is not something you can argue.
Are you familiar with how Kingdom Hearts was originally pitched to people? It was sold as Disney meets Final Fantasy. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but the fact is that the FF-esque JRPG aesthetic and character cameos were part of what sold the game to a lot of people. By straying further and further away from this, the games just betray the expectations of people who got into the series that way.
Enjoyment is pretty much entirely subjective. Game design isn't. I would not say Kingdom Hearts games are very well-designed.
I didn't find KH2's camera easier to control, yes, I'm aware of the original pitch, but I didn't get into the series because of Final Fantasy (bold...?), and I fail to see how any part of this isn't subjective. Does that mean my argument isn't legimate, or...what? Is it disregarded because it isn't based off of a single definition of an undefinable word?
FF+Disney made an interesting combination that was pulled off surprisingly well in the first game, but why should they continue to make those two elements the main focus of a series that has its own plot and its own characters? I don't see the point. If you want an FF-esque game, here's an idea: play Final Fantasy ._. I can understand disappointment in this area, but not annoyance.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| I fail to see how any part of this isn't subjective |
Cameras are supposed to help you see what you're doing and make it easier for you to see different parts of the environment. kh2's camera IS better at this. i'm not really sure how you could say it's the best camera in the series considering kh1's camera got stuck on walls ALL THE TIME, was way too close, and you had very limited control over it. it was just a textbook example of bad camera in videogames, show it to anyone who's familiar with 3d game design and they will tell you that it's bad.
you can prefer kh1's camera to kh2's, that's your prerrogative, but in terms of actually doing what it's supposed to be doing it's not subjective that kh2's is better.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I never noticed the problems with the camera in the first game until someone spoke about it. But thinking the camera in the first game is better than KHII's is very silly.
The right-stick is practically designed for camera control.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'm not sure if "convoluted" is necessarily the right world to describe KH, it's more like "complicated". "Convoluted" implies that the story is extremely complex and hard to follow which it isn't, not in broader strokes, but it tries to layer itself with so many plot points and that's what makes it confusing. And it's not layered in a good way. As mentioned before, there's nothing wrong with a story being complicated and it's not so much an issue of simple stories vs. complex stories, it's that KH...doesn't do complex stories well. Throwing in a bunch of plot points, characters, and bloating the mythos doesn't make a "deep and intricate" story, not if it's badly executed, it the case of KH it's just becoming an uninteresting mess that doesn't make me hope up and down in anticipation for the next game. KH's attempt at depth is superficial and unengaging and suffers from trying too hard.
It's not a matter of personal preference, I actually prefer stories that are more on the complex side, but some stories work better when aimed in a certain direction. I think KH is a story that just didn't need to be this complicated. It's a cross over series marrying Disney and Square, it practically came with a built in background from premise alone, the original story just needed to build on that. Which it sort of did at first until it became a monster and I can see why so many people think KH should stray from Disney. It's built such a huge mythos on it's own that Disney (and by extension, Final Fantasy) have been pushed to the background because for all intensive purposes those elements are all but useless to the story bar from giving it a platform.
Nowwa days it's much less about interacting with Disney characters and exploring their worlds with them than they are filler to occupy space because the core story and the characters have diverged so much. With that the charm and atmosphere the first game built up (KH1 slut praising fufufu!) is gone and KH is essentially a mediocre shonen anime that you can interact with.
And then good lord, the characters! For better or worse the characters have stayed relatively simple as far as character development goes, which I don't think it necessarily a bad thing, but most of them lack characterization to at least make up for it. Some characters are as old as the series and haven't aged well while others are babies that didn't even have a chance. Many of the new protagonist post KH1 are essentially copies of SRK with slight personality variations and or recolors but an ounce of the character but in the mean while are screaming that they're "there own people" (not literally *in most cases*) despite having little variation. Bar from a small handful of characters I don't care about most of them.
For me, I'm mostly sticking around to see through what I started to the end (KH3 is the end, this "saga" business doesn't exist) and to see what happens with the few characters I like. Then I jump ship.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
This is because of Goofy isn't it? That dog has had your attention since the start of the series! you don't pay attentiuon to me celtis! did you see my new shirt? i did my hair different too and asll you said was "lol chaser i love goofy".
Well kupo you celtis. why donr you go to Goofy and walk him instead!!!
(And I will actually read this thread LATERRRR!!!)
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Cameras are supposed to help you see what you're doing and make it easier for you to see different parts of the environment.
KH1's camera DID help me. But, once again, I was accustomed to not even using the camera by the time I found it. I played the game just fine without it, so, obviously, having it ONLY helped. KH2's was, for lack of a better word, wonky, and I disliked having it on the analog stick. It messed me up every single time @_@
....
*sigh* My point is that this argument is just as much valid as yours, his, and hers. You can't call it incorrect simply because you don't agree with it. Logic doesn't work that way. So I will say that I think it was designed better, because, to me, it was T.T And, for the sake of accuracy, I did not say it was the best (that would be hypocritical of me, after claiming 'good' is undefinable), but that I preferred it (it being the shoulder button control, as opposed to the analog control).
I'll...I'll just leave now. Carry on.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I've always loved the series, and still do, and will stick through it till the end.
But that doesn't mean I can't see the glaring flaws the plot has and is continuing to make with Dream Drop Distance.
My biggest issue at first was Xion's existence...actually the entire plot of 358/2 Days for that matter. Not only did Xion's character and backstory rub me the wrong way, the whole game was so lazily written and made things even more complicated than they had to be.
Dream Drop Distance, as much fun as I had playing it, had me facepalming at the plot. So Xehanort knew everything ALL ALONG before it happened? Time travel? ...What? Since when was time travel ever involved in all this? Everything just gets more and more needlessly confusing and muddled.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
After having read both the first and the second article, I can see where you're coming from. I, too, have had my share of problems with the Kingdom Hearts games. Quite honestly, 3D was my least favorite of the games. The story was convoluted to begin with and then they didn't bother to explain it well to make it less convoluted. The story has always been complicated, even from the first one, but with each game, it becomes harder and harder to figure out where certain things tie in. Each time a new game comes out, I have to play the game that came out before it just to understand what's going on. It used to be that I enjoyed that, but it has gotten tiring, what with all of the side games. Yes, BBS had an important story line, and I enjoyed the game too much to care that it was convoluted, but you're right, Days and Coded were both unnecessary in the long run. That doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy them anyway, for the sheer fun factor.
Every game has its bad parts. Kingdom Hearts 1 was great, like you said, and I enjoyed the slight puzzle strategy that was encountered in each world (like Deep Jungle's potion cooking and Hollow Bastion's maze) that has since been taken out of the series, but it also had its bad parts. I think part of me liked Kingdom Hearts 2 so much simply because the beginning didn't feature Sora. Some people didn't like Roxas, but I did, at least for the first few days before he got whiny. I have since changed my mind where Sora is concerned, but when I first played KH, I hated his cheerfulness and ditzy manners. He was annoying. Every one is going to have different opinions on what is good and what isn't. In order to bring about KH2 and KH3, Nomura had to make the story more convoluted, had to bring in more enemies, had to bring back characters that fans obviously enjoyed (because that brings in more money and SE is a business, even if some fans blame and thus don't like ditzy fan girls. Sorry, but we spend our money on these too, and since KH is Disney based (mostly princess-based at that), the fan base has a large girl population. Not saying that guys don't enjoy it, but, come on, it's Princess Disney, especially the first one). If Nomura didn't make it more complicated, would we have enjoyed a sequel as much? We can say what we dislike about this and what they should have done instead, but another story line would have had its problems, too. Nothing's perfect.
That said, for all of its problems, for all that it is too easy, for all that Disney seems to have taken a backseat where story is concerned, I still love the games. I will always buy a game when it comes out, and I will always play it, and enjoy it. Even though I didn't like 3D by the end, I still enjoyed the general feel of the game and I loved getting to play as both Sora and Riku, even though I missed Donald and Goofy (something that I wouldn't have said after the first game. I always hated Donald). And Flowmotion was just awesome, after you've played the entire game through with it. I've since tried to play other games from the series, both console and handheld, and each time, I try to bounce off a wall and get frustrated when it doesn't happen. So, in the end, each time a game comes out, I remember what I like so much about Kingdom Hearts. It begins, and ends, with Sora's cheerful, ditzy smile. There's the charm that I will always love about KH, and I couldn't care less if Disney ever ended up in another game now. I have much more invested in terms of interest with Sora.
And, since my eight year old niece was next to me when I read the article, here's some words from her. She probably would have written even more than I had she not had to go to bed.
By the way, I do like DDD, but it had some un-challenging moments, like Hockomonkey's brute form. The strategy is to use fire magic when the battle starts. Then hit it. Most of all, I had no need for the potions I bought. He was just too easy. Then there are the moments that are too hard at the wrong time, like Rinzler. His reverse gravity was hard and so was his dive attack. Over all, I half agree and disagree with the article and I do think that Kingdom Hearts is an overall good series, although Days needs some work.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Awww come on guys! Kingdom Hearts’ narrative is great because it’s stupid. It’s glorious, melodramatic schlock. This is a universe where Donald Duck, Goofy, and Mickey Mouse are not only playing dramatic roles, but are also waging a war against freaking Ming the Merciless. Of course it’s stupid and don’t you dare try and take that away from me. I NEED THIS!! Despite all the silliness, they remain relatively consistent in regards to the rules of the universe and how things work making the story fun to speculate and debate over. It may be a bit hard to explain on paper with all the body switching and what not, but if you witness it all in context it’s really a pretty straight forward story.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to say the game is anywhere near perfect. As for the game play, I can agree that it’s a pretty one note experience, but it’s flashy and entertaining and sometimes that’s enough. In games like Kingdom Hearts, gameplay isn’t really something I take into account. Maybe it’s because I consider myself a borderline casual gamer, but It’s just fun roaming about in films from my youth, kickin’ some butt as the Keyblade Master with my horribly out of place companions. Sure, Days and Coded were superfluous and a bit tedious, but they’re going to be replaced by video files in the upcoming remasters anyway and I think they will be better off for it. In conclusion, Kingdom Hearts is a tidal wave of silly nonsense that I could never stop loving if I tried.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
True, the gameplay is getting a little boring, but the system for CoM was unique. I still sort of play KH, but may stop unless it becomes more interesting. The plot is also getting more complicated. First it's hearts, then nobodies? Then suddenly, just for bbs, there's the unversed. Then, suddenly in 3d, they start talking about time travel? For some parts, I agree. Except for CoM, all ur really doing is pressing x. If KH gets better gameplay, then I think it'll be worth trying
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Well, I can't say I agree with this editorial on the whole, but after some of the downright embarrassing developments of KH3D, I'm inclined to see the reason behind the widely held opinion that KH's story has gone to the gutters. As far as I'm concerned, its only remaining potential at this point rests in its execution of various characters' roles: I happen to be a Roxas, Xion and DAYS fan who has been excited at seeing that story thread expanded; and one thing DDD got totally right was its utilization of Riku, which was ironically the aspect of the game I was most apprehensive about seeing as I didn't really view him as a substantial character prior. But once Young Xehanort started explaining things about Sora's clothing design (really, Nomura?) I knew the plot was finally starved of innovation and momentum. It was only a matter of time given how many stalling tactics have been enforced in order to make up for the great time void that is Versus but Square, Nomura, et al have truly run the story aspects of the games into the ground. All I want from KH3 is to see a resolution for these characters that's meaningful and heartfelt.
One thing that does bother me, though, is the constant bickering over repetition of Disney Worlds, which is almost always (as here) coupled with a desire to see the Worlds have cohesion with and relevance to the overarching plot line. You can't have it both ways. A large part of the meaningfulness of the Disney Worlds, on the whole, is the connections that the main characters have with the Disney characters, especially as this applies to Sora. Thus, having the Worlds reappear is one of the most reliable manners in which to make them relevant to the main plot; characters such as Peter Pan and Hercules (and their respective Worlds) are important to Sora and should, by extension, be important to the player because there's an existing relationship to everything that has happened and is happening (that is, when Nomura isn't shooting himself in the foot with memory resets and the like). Having new Worlds is great, yes, but it's not always effective as far as the internal mythos of the game is concerned. With DDD it worked in large part because, to be honest, DDD is just a lot of fun-to-play filler given weight by deus ex machina plot contrivances and hamfisted retconning (and anyone who knows my former opinion on this matter knows just how I am eating my own words right now); but even that game relies on recurring characters like Pinocchio and Tron in order to bring the game full circle as part of the larger chronicle that is Sora's journey.
Basically, I agree with many others in that I think it would be great if KH could return to being a freewheeling adventure about a Keyblade wielder traveling through various Disney worlds on a Gummi Ship and locking/unlocking doors while battling classic Disney villains. I don't mind a wider mythology to that (much like The Legend of Zelda or Doctor Who has), but it definitely didn't need something like the Xehanort plot/character to make it enjoyable, and I would argue it's more of a detractor at this point. I mean, you can condense everything of substance that's happened over the past five (FIVE!) games (maybe excluding Birth By Sleep) into one or two installments; and if you left out some of the time travel and Attack of the Clones nonsense, you would probably have a superior tale to boot. Personally, I think that's precisely what the next HD collection should do.
I don't mean to say that I hate the games or that I don't think they're fun. I still think they're a step above most other ongoing video game series and, as I said above, I'll play whatever arrives in the interim before KH3 just out of interest in the characters (probably). Truthfully, I'm likely being overcritical in hindsight and letting some of the small, awfully executed elements overshadow some of the great things the games (yes, all of them) have accomplished, so I'm willing to own that. I'll continue to support the series and love what I love about each game, because there's so much there to enjoy; and the things I don't, I'll accept with a sigh (and a rant on the Internet) and move on.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Hilariously enough, young Xehanort has become one of my favorite Villains in the series even though his role in the mythos is a mess. :p
Also i wouldnt be upset about a few worlds returning. Theres one more aladdin movie not used,Tron doesnt seem done and Port royal and Halloween Town I just want to see return. lol
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Okay the worlds issue for me it's about how much potential these worlds have. Looking back at KH1 Aladdin's World and compare it to KH2 it's terrible because at least with KH1 like people have mentioned there was exploration to the game although little.
In Kh2 I thought they would expand on that, but it seems like they say fuck it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Okay the worlds issue for me it's about how much potential these worlds have. Looking back at KH1 Aladdin's World and compare it to KH2 it's terrible because at least with KH1 like people have mentioned there was exploration to the game although little.
In Kh2 I thought they would expand on that, but it seems like they say diddly it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
so basically I'm the only person here who plays the series for the original characters/plot/whatever and doesn't really care about the Disney stuff
Hey, I'm with you here. Honestly if they made a Disney character the protaginst of this game I wouldn't be here now. I probably wouldn't have touched the games. I played KH because of my love for Final Fantasy games.
And now KH is my most favorite franchise I have played and will remain so. Yes sure Donald and Goofy are cool but they are just for sidekicks. I'm happy Nomura has decided that this will be always Sora's story.
Anyway, I liked KH1 the most because it was darker than KH2. Although that doesn't mean I don't like the franchise anymore.
Everytime there is a new trailer I get chills when I see it. Not to mention that I have watched all the non-console game opn youtube because I just can't wait to see the story. TBH I think the story has gotten way better. KH had a simple story, but everything after KH2 changed and became more epic.
I'm surprised to see so many people here dislike the newer games.
I believe Kingdom Hearts 3 will be like a crossroads. Many people will have to choose between 2 paths. Whether they leave the series or continue even further and stay for the next saga.
I have already chosen my path.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
To be honest, I think the Disney stuff really ruins it for me because the worlds and character models are really sub-par. Donald and goofy are so bland that they could be easily replaced by any character. *possible spoilers* And they will. They're gonna' trade Goofy and Donald for Riku and Kairi because they can weild keyblades now. *end of spoilers*
I would have liked to see more of Olette, Heiner, and Pence because they're original characters and I cared for them more than I ever had for Goofy and Donald. They could have been more than just Roxas' imaginary friends.
The plot is pretty weak for a Square title. If I could give the plot a face, it's like Star Wars that made love to Harry Potter series. Why? Keyblades=Lightsabers, Dark vs. Light, Orgasm XIII=Horcruxes. I would't say they ripped off of it or something but you can easily draw parallels between them.
The problem for me is that, the plot is so short. And when I mean short, I mean, if you only count the important parts. The story is actually pretty short. They could have easily stuffed two or three plots of the different games into one game. Days could have easily been put in KH2 or Re:Chain of Memories. Because as far as I have noticed, the only parts that matter in the games are the Beginning and the End. Get off Island/Town, visit didney worls and then go into dark world. Next game.
And whats worse, they stretched out and spread the plot in different consoles. Oh my god. All my money. I bought a PS3 thinking that they'd make a PS3 release because KH 1 re:Chain, and 2 were on the PS2 BUT BOY WAS I WRONG. PS3's almost at the end of its life cycle and all I'm getting is that HD 1.5 which I am unfortunately going to buy because I still do love this series despite all the sins its committed against me.
Here is the summary of my general impression of the individual games in the series:
Kingdom Hearts- awesome game, horrible red shorts. I loved this game because it had so many secrets and so many things to do. There were trinities, dalmatians, secret bosses in different worlds. I would go so far as to say that this game was the best thought out among the series.
Chain of Memories- The plot was a STUPID LIE. "Lose something to gain something?" That's bullshit, they were just gonna' turn Sora into a vegetable and reboot him with Windows XIII. I loved Riku's story though and how he stopped being a cast member from the exorcist and he also wasn't whiny and annoying in that release was also nice. Also, I hate using cards for doors because there was one time I was stuck looking for a card with value of 3. It took me two hours to find it and progress.
Kingdom Hearts II-Thank god they changed his costume but I wish Kairi stayed in her uniform. In fact, Kairi's design was way better in the first game. Combat was fast but was too easy (except for Sephiroth). Last Boss battle was truly epic. The dragon, fly buildings, and the Advent Children-esque duel with Xemnas made me ROCK HARD. The only problem was that there weren't that as many secrets or secret bosses hidden in the game. NAMINE>KAIRI because she just can't pull off that Salmon one piece.
358/2 Days-Roxas writing in his diary for over almost a year. Only notable thing was that Xion was cute (because I hate Kairi's KH2 model) but they took that from me too because they turned her into a man then into a robot. Guh. Battle was really boring. The only good thing about this game was that there was multiplayer competitive coop.
Coded- Didn't bother but I watched it on youtube. The game just tells you to play Birth By Sleep.
Birth By Sleep-Really fun for a while. I like how there's a versus mode and it gave the plot a little more substance. Still not that many secrets other than Command Combinations and two secret bosses that are BRUTALLY DIFFICULT. I never got to defeat the mysterious figure skater. The game felt too short as well. I mean, I beat the game at level 35 in proud mode. *shrugs* The plot was like Star Wars too because you start out in a Jedi Academy and Xehanort is about the same physical and evil build as Palpatine. Aqua is also my true love.
3D-I like this about as much as I like Kingdom Hearts II. The levels were amazing. It felt like playing Megaman Legends with MegaMan X jumps. The plot wasn't so bad either. Xehanort also pulled a Voldemort except a little more evil because he likes to put his soul inside living people instead. They also gave Orgasm XIII more importance because they didn't just stand around and wish they had feelings. My only gripes with it was that why the hell did they give Ultima Weapon after the secret boss? I mean, after you beat the secret boss, there's really nothing left to hit your keyblade with so why set up Ultima Weapon as the prize? The secret boss wasn't so hard either because of one word: BALOONGA.BALOONGA.BALOONGA.BALOONGA.BALOONGA.BALOONGA.BALOONGA. In fact, you can just about kill all the bosses with that one command if you just load an entire deck with it and one curaga.
Overall, I love the series but why the fuck did it take 11 years to get to this point? I was the same age as Sora when the game came out for the love of fuck and now I'm 23.
Nomura, if you can hear me through KHInsider, please release FINAL FANTASY VERSUS XIII and KINGDOM HEARTS III on the PS3. THAT'S WHY I BOUGHT THE DAMN THING.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
[FONT=Times]I'm sorry but i disagree with this entire thing i think the story is perfect in every possible way and i love how many twist and turns there are and i also love complex stories like that it just makes it more interesting after you are done playing the main story. But the ONLY THING that i dislike about kingdom hearts is the constant grunting wile in battle... I'm sorry Sora but you don't need to grunt with every step you take haha And i guess i also agree with the fact that re-coded shouldn't have been a game but every series has its flaws and they would never learn if it was to perfect.[/FONT]
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Eh, to me Agrabah didn't feel as Boring compared to 1. 2's had a large city to look at. 1's just felt to me a little bland. Anyway I still would like to know how they would handel King of thieves if they used agrabah one more time.
So you rather look at a city that has no exploration vs. one that did? Don't try to sit here and tell me that KH2 Argabah had exploration cause it didn't in fact none of the game did. That's why it was criticize the hell and back as being a straight line.
Also judging from recent entries into the game Argabah would have been as bad as KH2 version with King of Thieves and all.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
When have you ever had to explore in Kingdom Hearts?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
When have you ever had to explore in Kingdom Hearts?
Not trying to say that I'm trying to say KH1 gave a sense of exploration compared to it's sequel hell even the back of the cover states "you'll never know who you'll run into next".
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| Nomura, if you can hear me through KHInsider, please release FINAL FANTASY VERSUS XIII and KINGDOM HEARTS III on the PS3. THAT'S WHY I BOUGHT THE DAMN THING. |
versus is already confirmed to be a ps3 exclusive. but kh3 hasn't even been announced for any platform yet, so buying a ps3 for kh3 is honestly just a dumb idea.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
versus is already confirmed to be a ps3 exclusive. but kh3 hasn't even been announced for any platform yet, so buying a ps3 for kh3 is honestly just a dumb idea.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I am a HUGE fan of the series...and yet, while reading this, I am finding myself agreeing with much of what you are saying.
The Disney characters' role within the game itself has kinda faded into the background. The reason I first picked up the original Kingdom Hearts game was because I didn't think any company could do it: fuse Keyblade-swinging action and combat with the wonderful world of Disney. Of course, to my surprise, Square pulled it off.
I feel Kingdom Hears was based on the fact that there was Disney presence. It was original, fresh. Take that away, and just include Disney for the heck of it, certainly doesn't do anything for the storyline (although I must admit I kind of like the complexity and all the twists and turns that have been introduced, even if it is ridiculous).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I still think KH2 is superior to all KH games thus far lol
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Though I did say I disagree with a lot of what the editorial said, I don't want people to get the impression that I think the Kingdom Hearts story is perfect/awesome in every way. It's not- some things really got me annoyed, like the lack of NPCs, the way the worlds got more and more lifeless as the games got along.... And perhaps some of the things you guys are saying is true: some of the handheld games might have been unnecessary, the plot does throw a lot of curve balls that could never have been predicted (okay, time travel is a bit of a stretch), the way the Disney plots have faded, growing lack of FF characters, etc...
But I can't say that this has made me come to dislike the Kingdom Hearts series. I'm not even sure if I can say that this has all lessened my love for it- despite its flaws, I've devoted myself to staying on the KH ship no matter what happens (well, maybe I can't promise that, but pretty much. They'd have to do something CRAZY to cause me to jump ship, now), and I still feel excitement for every piece of Kingdom Hearts news- heck, I'm even excited for that PC game.
There have been points where some of the games have disappointed me (surprisingly, 3D was a much bigger disappointment than I expected. Like you guys said, it had a bunch of weird moments, and didn't "connect" to the next game, and turned out to be not as important as I thought it'd be. Honestly, by the end of the game, it certainly raised more questions than it answered. Not what I was expecting), but I still love playing them all for the fun of it. Yes, even Re:Coded. Though the story was irrelevant to the plot, the game itself was still actually enjoyable. (Come on, no haters, please). Days, I actually really enjoyed gameplay as well, and the ending was honestly one that had me sobbing (more for Roxas's sake than Xion's). CoM was extremely repetitive, and although planning strategies was fun (except for Riku's, whose decks you couldn't even modify, if I remember correctly), it grew too repetitive. But I loved its story, to a point (Sora and RikuRep got really really annoying after awhile...). Seeing Axel and some of Org XIII were probably the best parts (Larxene, Zexion, and Marluxia!!) KHI and KHII were awesome, nothing to say there. BBS I loved mostly because of its plot and characters (do I have to repeat myself? Aqua, Aqua, Aqua.... *squeal* Oh, and Terqua. *squeal again*), and all the connections it has to its "future" games. That's another thing I really love about the franchise is how everything connect. Sure, maybe some of them do connection in the most winded up, craziest, and complicated/unnecessary ways. But they do connect. I guess it's something I've always loved seeing as a kid in books, movies, shows, games, etc., and with KH chalked full of them (whether done badly or not), I can't help but get excited, and even proud when I see or notice them, especially the really small details. (kind of like Harry Potter, where small details turn out to be connected to something greater in the end.) [One example is where in KHI, you talk to the Fairy Godmother, who tells Sora that her world was swallowed up by darkness. Oh wait, remember? In BBS, Aqua sees the Castle of Dreams in the RoD.... coincidence that they decided to show that one first? I think not!] xD
Maybe I'm just an easy judge when it comes to games- I can't claim myself to be a highly experienced gamer, even in the Square Enix area (I've never truly played through any FF game... though I do want to...), and I'm not a very skilled gamer, either. Even knowing KH's flaws (because they are there. I won't deny that. KH is not perfect), however, I still love the franchise and every game that comes out on it, whether it's to follow the story, see the characters again in a new setting, or just enjoy another one of their games. KH is still my favorite game franchise, and I can't stop the excitement I feel when playing the games or watching their trailers.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
So you rather look at a city that has no exploration vs. one that did? Don't try to sit here and tell me that KH2 Argabah had exploration cause it didn't in fact none of the game did. That's why it was criticize the hell and back as being a straight line.
Also judging from recent entries into the game Argabah would have been as bad as KH2 version with King of Thieves and all.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I still think KH2 is superior to all KH games thus far lol
Explaining why could never hurt.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'm also a huge fan of the series and I have to agree, while what keeps interested in the series is actually the overly complicated plot, there are limits to that before it just becomes messy. I liked Xion, but I didn't like the complicated reason [SPOILER=for Roxas' two keyblades, whcih was a two fold "mystery"][/SPOILER]. Also, I would also like for the Disney and SE cameo characters to become more relevant towards the driving plot [SPOILER=3D at least had this with TWEWY gang, where Joshua provided a big hint to one of the reveals in the game. Also, there's the fact that the Seven Princesses are under threat from Xehanort again.][/SPOILER]. At the very least, they stopped rehashing KH1 endlessly. That said, I'm content with gameplay as it is. I never found myself button mashing in BBS (In fact, I don't button mash in these games at all unless prompted to or forced to, like MF) However, I can't wait for the day where button mashing in a KH game becomes impractical and an unreliable option in combat.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
WHEN did I say it had more exploration? All I said was that 2s version was much larger and to me didnt feel as bland as ones. i was never trying to make you believe anything. i still think they will use it in 3 again after watching the 3d secret ending. And yes i would rather look at a level that has atmosphere over one that looks bland but has more exploration. but that is just me. plus 1 had the original and two used return of Jafar. It would only make sense 3 uses KoT.
Honestly you're sitting here telling me how KH2 level had a better atmosphere, but if there is nothing to do it don't matter. The KH2 level's are much larger space wise, but lack any real depth to any of them even the best levels.
It's like putting something in your house just to make it take up space that's what most level's of KH2 feel like just there.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
wait wait back up a minute... you're telling me you MARRIED a video game? come on you should've at least married a good one like mega man 2 or something
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
When I first started reading this, I felt this guy must be some troll who grew up and decided KH wasn't cool anymore. That being said, I agree with alot of his points, and recant that earlier opinion. The comparison to Bleach was genius, because both of these series are grasping at straws, trying to find something new to write about, when clearly it needs to just end (not saying end KH). Personally, I am a fan of stories with many twists and turns, but there comes a point where it becomes bland, like adding to much of one ingredient when cooking. It messes the whole dish up.
My main problem with the series is that all Disney worlds are just silly C- carbon copies of their movie counterparts, totally disconnected from the main story, and adding nothing good to the games. Playing the first KH, I always felt like every world I went to gave me a deeper understanding of the motivations and intentions of the games villains. The "Villain's alliance" scene after the first Traverse Town visit gave me a "nerdgasm." I mean, I had always wondered what would happen if those guys teamed up! What's more, they were (at least in the first scene) intelligent, putting aside their own petty vendettas against the various Disney heroes in the pursuit of a common goal. That's such a deadly combination! They felt dangerous and exciting, even more so because I already knew them, their personalities, tendencies, and motivations. Going up against each one of them (especially Jafar) felt like I was crossing swords with a worthy adversary more experienced in the ways of combat, rather than a underplayed, buggy, stooge of an AI. Also, each world had a (semi-) original story that made it fun and interesting to play in, that added another piece to the puzzle of what the heck was actually going on in the larger universe.
Unfortunately, with the dissolution of the Villain's alliance and what I like to call the "Anime-zation" of KH, the games fell into a rut. Bosses who weren't the Organization became easy hit-and-runs, and worlds were brief diversions totally separate from the main story, badly mimicking the far-superior movies they were based on. What's more, anyone who wasn't a KH Original Character became a boring run-of-the-mill NPC, unable to supply any pertinent information, where as in the first game, everyone had something interesting and brain-teasing to offer.
In fact, every KH game since the original has felt like playing KH:COM all over again. You run through the uninteresting, uninspired, and irrelevant clone of a level from the first game to get the new story information at the end of the hallway, then rinse and repeat till the end of the game.
It is my hope that Square will take our opinions into account for KH3.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
While I love KH so much that it would seem I would not agree with the OP, but truly, I do. It's saddening that the more recent games have lowered a lot from the original. While there are some changes I do love (Camera), there are some I don't, such as the button smashing and the lack of story line, especially the story line... I have felt after Days.... the story just started to make no sense to me... I felt like Nomura was just pulling story plot ideas out of his butt... hopefully I'm wrong, but I still feel this way when I replay KH and then the other games....
Also, good editorial! GOOD JOB! >w< b
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Speaking of villains, Maleficent was pretty cool until KH2... What was that?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
While I do agree that the gameplay can be quite repetitive, it seems that Square Enix has been making it more intricate with each release. Birth By Sleep's command system was hailed by many critics as innovative and fun (not buttonmashing). In regards to the story, I feel that the handheld games add more dimensions to it. Yes, it's complicated, but that's what makes it so interesting. Each title adds significance to certain characters or events. The story is very mature, and I love it. Birth By Sleep, for example, made Sora so much more of an important character. There are all these people connected to him who are desperately hoping for his success.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Theres a lot i agree with and a lot i dont agree with. The games did lose that disney feel but not too much charm
The story got convoluted but the execution id the only problem i haf. Kh2 fm bbs and ddd sreuch harder on critical than kh1 was.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'd just like to say, I read Bleach, up to the absolute latest chapters, and KH is nowhere near as terrible. You think Bleach has a convoluted plot? It barely has a plot. Particularly after Aizen was defeated. There's nothing convoluted about it. It's simple: battle after battle after battle > introduce new characters with as much depth as a sheet of paper while ignoring all the others > repeat. It treats neither its story nor its characters with anything resembling respect. KH may have lost some of the magic, but it's nowhere near the cliff Bleach fell off.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Honestly you're sitting here telling me how KH2 level had a better atmosphere, but if there is nothing to do it don't matter. The KH2 level's are much larger space wise, but lack any real depth to any of them even the best levels.
It's like putting something in your house just to make it take up space that's what most level's of KH2 feel like just there.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'd just like to say, I read Bleach, up to the absolute latest chapters, and KH is nowhere near as terrible. You think Bleach has a convoluted plot? It barely has a plot. Particularly after Aizen was defeated. There's nothing convoluted about it. It's simple: battle after battle after battle > introduce new characters with as much depth as a sheet of paper while ignoring all the others > repeat. It treats neither its story nor its characters with anything resembling respect. KH may have lost some of the magic, but it's nowhere near the cliff Bleach fell off.
I think the arguement comes in with all the heart theories, time travel, and multiple villains (most of which I don't particularly care about).
It's like Xhibit coming in and saying: "Yo, I see you like Kingdom Hearts; so I put hearts in more hearts and then threw in people who don't have hearts but were made from hearts in your Kingdom Hearts!" Do you see where I'm coming from? It's just too much fluff that doesn't amount to anything. I'm not saying make an OVERLY simple plot; I'm just saying, if you're going to do a complex plot then do it right. It seems as though KH has entangled itself in a web that it can't get out of without giving some overly complicated explanation followed by another plot-hole/discrepancy/question.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I think the arguement comes in with all the heart theories, time travel, and multiple villains (most of which I don't particularly care about).
I think most of the whole "complicated plot" thing came in in the latest release, 3D. At least, that's how I see it. To be honest, and I hate admitting this, but it is the truth, but it was one of the most disappointing installments. Mostly disappointing, because Square and Nomura made us have such high expectations for it. The gameplay was fun, don't get me wrong- flow motion was awesome, being able to fly from one building to the next and not have to "walk" all the way across the maps.
At the same time, the worlds were even more bland and lifeless than in any other game. Even worst that Re:Coded, where you could still talk to people, at least, even if they were merely digital memories. In 3D, you can't talk to anyone except Moogles, and the couple times you "walk up" to someone, they disappear altogether. -____- And I also hated how the world plots didn't really apply to the overarching one at all. Yes, they were all fillers, and even more so than the other past games. The only plot I really really loved was the one in Tron, where we did get to see a short Sora/Tron reunion. That was really sweet :B. But other than that, even the TWEWY character involvement disappointed me (and right after I finally got to play the game, too. :( )
And then, you finally get to the world that REALLY matters, TWTNW. And yes, this was pretty awesome, and finally, the plot is important. But then they throw you the "time traveling" curve ball, and the "Xehanort's forms will come back together in one place" curve ball, and the "everyone can grow a heart, Xemnas was lying to OrgXIII" curve ball"... and a bunch of other stuff.
I don't hate the series for this, but I can admit that it's a bit of a mess right now (but please don't compare to Bleach, because that one is just stupid. I agree with Xagzan. It should have ended when Aizen died, though, even then, it was getting boring and predictable [battle, battle, near-death, revival, get new powers, battle, battle, near-death... you get the point -____- ).
Though I do really hope everything ties together in the next installment (whether it's KH3 or not. PLEASE FINISH THAT FFVS ALREADY, SQUARE!), and that they bring the PoH back into the plot. It's high time we see them again, and their importance to KH overall. And Maleficent, too. xD
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
@ saphexteni
The complicated plot stuff started around KH2 just to be clear or at least when people began to realize it had many flaws that to this day I don't know if it was fixed.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Largely kh2s plotholes were fixed. But bbs is when it dtarted for me
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'll throw my two cents into the fray:
I...have to agree with a great many of this. It's not that I don't love KH anymore, but I'm not in love with it as I was before. The first, CoM and KH2 have me such a different feel...though KH2 is kinda pushing it as well. The first two KH games I feel we're handled much better compared to the latest installments. Disney worlds were not only relevant but they were APART of the story. The Disney Villains stepped out of their worlds to watch Sora carefully, well more so his giant...key. And when you entered a Disney world it may have been just like the movie it came from, or at least based loosely on it but at least you felt that Sora, Donald, and Goofy were actually apart of the story unfolding and were experiencing the events of the movie with the characters. Now, especially in KH2 and kinda BBS sadly, it's just copying and pasting them and letting them meddle in the story like bad fan fiction.
Maleficent was ruined, RUINED. She was such an intimidating and manipulative character but she's been reduced to comic relief. She wasn't the dark fairy who led the evil band of villains and ended up being used by an original and rather enigmatic monster that was Ansem. Who is also rather non-intimidating anymore.
The lack of FF-cameos didn't bother so much in BBS it's how the one cameo was used. Leon and the others were cameos and all, but they still had a footing in the story and were close with the main characters, I doubt TAV gave Zack a second's thought outside of Olympus.
It just feels that the main characters are disconnected from everyone who isn't in their immediate circle. They visit a world, meddle a little bit. Aqua handled her world visits rather well from what I remember. Treasure hunting, Fairy God-mother telling her to check herself (though Aqua legit disregards these words once she leaves the world...like she goes right back to thinking the same exact way) it's just. It seems whatever they experience, learn, or go through in a world STAYS in that world.
Although I frown on kh2 now, looking back I was excited when that thing came out, and despite its easiness I forgave it because of its predecessors (kh and CoM) but only so much can be forgiven.
I'm not saying I hate the series, I'm not saying some of the new games aren't enjoyable, I'm not saying any of that. It's just some of the things that made KH charming in the first place are being played down, ignored, or downright removed. If you want to introduce new characters and plots, be my guest, but don't let that take away from the journey. Have these new characters get involved directly with the worlds. Have Xion and/or Roxas talk to a talking puppet to see if they can be real despite being puppets in the metaphorical sense or the literal sense. "Oh they are in a secret society! They aren't supposed to interact with the world!" I don't care if the rule is there. They are teens! They are curious! They are confused! Let them not only observe the crap going on around the, but get involved with it. Terra and Aqua are on a mission? Let them deviate a little, they maybe apprentices but they are young and meeting people who have completely different ideals from them! Wouldn't that make them ask themselves, "hmmm, why do I hate the darkness so much? Why do I need power? Why is Terra doing all this? Maybe Terra needs someone to talk to instead of these villains" I don't know just let them get involved with the world they are invading! Ugh!
The gameplay. Button mashing. Not so fun as it was in KH1 and I mean to the point where it's not repetitive. Something can be fun as all hell but do it more than 20 times it's overplayed. You make think KH has a great story but its also a game! Which means gameplay will be a factor in judging if its a GOOD GAME. Balance commands if you're gonna keep them around. I can legit use only 7 good commands and have a whopping 30 or so commands that are absolutely useless and doing nothing more than annoying me as a scroll through them to get to the useful stuff.
This game series. I love it to pieces. It's what brought me to this site and awesome people but damn admit its flaws. It's many many flaws.
/twopennies
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
@ saphexteni
The complicated plot stuff started around KH2 just to be clear or at least when people began to realize it had many flaws that to this day I don't know if it was fixed.
That's a large claim to make, one that I actually believe is more opinion based. I personally LOVED the plot in KH2, and I know many people who did, too. Which is why I prefer KH2 to KH1, no offense to those who disagree. The plot in KH2 is what made me fall in love with the series more than when I played KH and CoM. In this case, I just have a different opinion to what makes a good game. Many of the plot holes in KH2 were answered (just as ajmrowland said), and it wasn't a huge stretch. The inclusion of another set of original villains was a great addition, in my opinion, as working with only Disney villains can really only get you so far. Yes, it was awesome in the first game, but I can't imagine how they would expand the series and keep going with sequels when the main focus is on Disney villains. Not to say they suck- I think they're awesome. But you also have to remember that they only care about their world, for the most part, and their "working together" in KHI was really shortlived as well. They kind of went on their own business most of the time.
I'll throw my two cents into the fray:
It just feels that the main characters are disconnected from everyone who isn't in their immediate circle. They visit a world, meddle a little bit. Aqua handled her world visits rather well from what I remember. Treasure hunting, Fairy God-mother telling her to check herself (though Aqua legit disregards these words once she leaves the world...like she goes right back to thinking the same exact way) it's just. It seems whatever they experience, learn, or go through in a world STAYS in that world.
I'm not saying I hate the series, I'm not saying some of the new games aren't enjoyable, I'm not saying any of that. It's just some of the things that made KH charming in the first place are being played down, ignored, or downright removed. If you want to introduce new characters and plots, be my guest, but don't let that take away from the journey. Have these new characters get involved directly with the worlds. Have Xion and/or Roxas talk to a talking puppet to see if they can be real despite being puppets in the metaphorical sense or the literal sense. "Oh they are in a secret society! They aren't supposed to interact with the world!" I don't care if the rule is there. They are teens! They are curious! They are confused! Let them not only observe the crap going on around the, but get involved with it. Terra and Aqua are on a mission? Let them deviate a little, they maybe apprentices but they are young and meeting people who have completely different ideals from them! Wouldn't that make them ask themselves, "hmmm, why do I hate the darkness so much? Why do I need power? Why is Terra doing all this? Maybe Terra needs someone to talk to instead of these villains" I don't know just let them get involved with the world they are invading! Ugh!
/twopennies
Most of this is, like you said, because of the way the setting was shaped. In Days, the organization isn't allowed to interact or allow people to see them (yes, because they are a "Secret" organization..) but at the same time, this was probably put in mainly so that nothing in Days conflicts with what was said or mentioned in KH2. Remember they made Days after KH2, so they couldn't predict everything they wanted to put in it- and I'm sure it would have been weird for Aladdin and/or other characters to see Roxas with a keyblade, but not mention it in KH2 or anything like that.
In BBS, it goes back to the roots of keyblade wielding and world traveling, and obviously things are going to be more strict about that (this wasn't out of the blue, since if you remember in KH, King Triton said that Sora wasn't supposed to "meddle" in other worldly affairs, though of course, Sora never listens to that xD). As for Aqua and Terra, sure, they're young. but they're not that young! They're much older than either Sora or Roxas/Ven, and they've lived with Master Eraqus and trained under his teachings for probably their whole lives. And even then, I actually think they did deviate from their quests- I mean, they met new people, interacted with the worlds. It wasn't like Roxas/Xion, where nothing they did had a direct effect in the worlds.
And I actually disagree with you when you say that "what happened in the world, stayed in that world." They couldn't very well take along the friends they made, or start talking about the things that happened with other people. But their experiences did effect them - Aqua's conversation with the fairy godmother? Definitely something new for her to think about. You think that she goes back to her old ways of thinking, but do you really expect her to change her ideals on something she's believed in her whole life just because of a short conversation with some fairy? With Aqua's personality, no. And personally, if I were in her position, I wouldn't either. After that chance meeting, she doesn't see anything that proves that darkness isn't bad and light isn't good. Vanitas- clearly darkness. And clearly bad. Same with Master Xehanort. And then, she hears about Terra killing their master (and probably with darkness). Um yeah, lots of proof and reason for her to change her ideals. But I don't think she's completely forgotten about the conversation, either, but there's been no occasion for her to bring it up or anything. Which is why, I, personally, am really really curious for her to meet Riku, who can wield darkness and light. That is something that I can see make her doubt her teachings.
And for Terra, his meeting with Stitch is what reminded him of the love he still had for his friends. Before that, he was "who care about this," "I just want to get stronger." After meeting Stitch and seeing the wayfinder, though, he does realize that he still cares about his friends. I, for one, think this was a really important part in his story that affected what he did afterward.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
The more I read this thread the more I think they shouldn't have had that "no meddling with other world's affairs" rule to begin with.
Most of this is, like you said, because of the way the setting was shaped. In Days, the organization isn't allowed to interact or allow people to see them (yes, because they are a "Secret" organization..) but at the same time, this was probably put in mainly so that nothing in Days conflicts with what was said or mentioned in KH2. Remember they made Days after KH2, so they couldn't predict everything they wanted to put in it- and I'm sure it would have been weird for Aladdin and/or other characters to see Roxas with a keyblade, but not mention it in KH2 or anything like that.
In BBS, it goes back to the roots of keyblade wielding and world traveling, and obviously things are going to be more strict about that (this wasn't out of the blue, since if you remember in KH, King Triton said that Sora wasn't supposed to "meddle" in other worldly affairs, though of course, Sora never listens to that xD). As for Aqua and Terra, sure, they're young. but they're not that young! They're much older than either Sora or Roxas/Ven, and they've lived with Master Eraqus and trained under his teachings for probably their whole lives. And even then, I actually think they did deviate from their quests- I mean, they met new people, interacted with the worlds. It wasn't like Roxas/Xion, where nothing they did had a direct effect in the worlds.
And I actually disagree with you when you say that "what happened in the world, stayed in that world." They couldn't very well take along the friends they made, or start talking about the things that happened with other people. But their experiences did effect them - Aqua's conversation with the fairy godmother? Definitely something new for her to think about. You think that she goes back to her old ways of thinking, but do you really expect her to change her ideals on something she's believed in her whole life just because of a short conversation with some fairy? With Aqua's personality, no. And personally, if I were in her position, I wouldn't either. After that chance meeting, she doesn't see anything that proves that darkness isn't bad and light isn't good. Vanitas- clearly darkness. And clearly bad. Same with Master Xehanort. And then, she hears about Terra killing their master (and probably with darkness). Um yeah, lots of proof and reason for her to change her ideals. But I don't think she's completely forgotten about the conversation, either, but there's been no occasion for her to bring it up or anything. Which is why, I, personally, am really really curious for her to meet Riku, who can wield darkness and light. That is something that I can see make her doubt her teachings.
And for Terra, his meeting with Stitch is what reminded him of the love he still had for his friends. Before that, he was "who care about this," "I just want to get stronger." After meeting Stitch and seeing the wayfinder, though, he does realize that he still cares about his friends. I, for one, think this was a really important part in his story that affected what he did afterward.
I agree with you on how the experiences from visiting other worlds effected the characters but I felt it wasn't always executed well, like with Aqua and the Fairy Godmother. While I understand that everything in the game practically did nothing but convince Aqua even further that darkness was nothing but a vile and evil thing that needs to be gotten rid of, it never really gave her much of a chance to consider otherwise. After Aqua left Castle of Dreams the FGM's advice never affected her again, not once. While one can argue that this characterizes Aqua further by showing that she's just as suborn about her iron clad beliefs of light and darkness as ME, CoD shows that she is in fact, open about the possibility that darkness isn't all that bad and trying other means besides light to fight it. She's willing to hear the FGM out and play by her rules to get the job done. But afterwards Aqua never questions her teachings again, or at the very least, questions that the FGM is wrong. The FGM's advice didn't affect her out side of that world and without hesitation Aqua solves problems the way she always had, beating the shit out of everything with her Keyblade. Though the way the story plays out is also at fault because Aqua's told that bright light casts shadows so it can be dangerous to fight it with light but the game makes little effort to back this up even though it's a theme that's supposed to play a part of the story. In essence, that entire conversation was pointless, even a little contradictory at worse, and served more as a means to vary the game play than develop story or character. Had it never been brought up I don't think it would have felt like anything was missing since it had such little impact.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
The more I read this thread the more I think they shouldn't have had that "no meddling with other world's affairs" rule to begin with.
I agree with you on how the experiences from visiting other worlds effected the characters but I felt it wasn't always executed well, like with Aqua and the Fairy Godmother. While I understand that everything in the game practically did nothing but convince Aqua even further that darkness was nothing but a vile and evil thing that needs to be gotten rid of, it never really gave her much of a chance to consider otherwise. After Aqua left Castle of Dreams the FGM's advice never affected her again, not once. While one can argue that this characterizes Aqua further by showing that she's just as suborn about her iron clad beliefs of light and darkness as ME, CoD shows that she is in fact, open about the possibility that darkness isn't all that bad and trying other means besides light to fight it. She's willing to hear the FGM out and play by her rules to get the job done. But afterwards Aqua never questions her teachings again, or at the very least, questions that the FGM is wrong. The FGM's advice didn't affect her out side of that world and without hesitation Aqua solves problems the way she always had, beating the shit out of everything with her Keyblade. Though the way the story plays out is also at fault because Aqua's told that bright light casts shadows so it can be dangerous to fight it with light but the game makes little effort to back this up even though it's a theme that's supposed to play a part of the story. In essence, that entire conversation was pointless, even a little contradictory at worse, and served more as a means to vary the game play than develop story or character. Had it never been brought up I don't think it would have felt like anything was missing since it had such little impact.
I see what you mean by what the FGM said kind of did nothing and had no effect on the overall story. And I'll agree, there. It didn't change Aqua's actions nor what she would have done otherwise, but I think that what she said hasn't totally gone away. I think what the FGM said is more of a "hint" or "clue" towards how her ideals will be changed in the future. (when she finally leaves the RoD, and meets Riku, maybe even meet Terra again, etc.). With the story of BBS structured the way it was, and its ending the way it was, it would have been difficult to include something that contradicted Aqua's and Master Eraqus's ideals on light vs. dark; I definitely don't fault the story for this, though.
The way I see it, the FGM's words were merely a "prelude" to Aqua doubting her beliefs in the future, after BBS, and not during.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I see what you mean by what the FGM said kind of did nothing and had no effect on the overall story. And I'll agree, there. It didn't change Aqua's actions nor what she would have done otherwise, but I think that what she said hasn't totally gone away. I think what the FGM said is more of a "hint" or "clue" towards how her ideals will be changed in the future. (when she finally leaves the RoD, and meets Riku, maybe even meet Terra again, etc.). With the story of BBS structured the way it was, and its ending the way it was, it would have been difficult to include something that contradicted Aqua's and Master Eraqus's ideals on light vs. dark; I definitely don't fault the story for this, though.
The way I see it, the FGM's words were merely a "prelude" to Aqua doubting her beliefs in the future, after BBS, and not during.
Even without the FGM's advice I think it was apparent that Aqua has to seriously doubt her beliefs in the future tbh. A theme or lesson being built up like this early on in game, forgotten about, and then continued in another I see as more bad story structure than anything. As you said with Terra, his meeting with stitch was to remind him that he still had friends and Aqua's weird "to be continued" way of learning to accept the darkness lesson is as if Terra didn't learn how valuable his friends were until the next game. Not saying that a theme or lesson can't transcend into another game but the way it was totally forgotten about in the game that brought it up in the first place is poor writing. The lesson didn't even have to go into full effect in BbS, a proper "prelude" would have been to show that Aqua at the very least takes things more into consideration throughout the course of the story before she came to the conclusion that darkness=bad. As it stands it's something that had no place being brought up in BbS and would have been smoother in KH3 where it would have actual relevance.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Then why are you a mod on a Kingdom Hearts fan site...
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Then why are you a mod on a Kingdom Hearts fan site...
Being a community leader of a Kingdom Hearts community fansite and being a Kingdom Hearts fan expressing a positive or negative opinion about the games is something we don't want to keep mutually exclusive. There are Kingdom Hearts fans of different levels, and we feel KHInsider is a place for all of them. Our editorials intend to reflect our community, so that's why we've featured an article that had a negative view of Kingdom Hearts past the first title.
However, if you're compelled to make the case why Kingdom Hearts is still a great series (and there are many here that agree with you), then I invite you to get in touch with the staff if you'd like to do an editorial of your own.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
That's a large claim to make, one that I actually believe is more opinion based. I personally LOVED the plot in KH2, and I know many people who did, too. Which is why I prefer KH2 to KH1, no offense to those who disagree. The plot in KH2 is what made me fall in love with the series more than when I played KH and CoM. In this case, I just have a different opinion to what makes a good game. Many of the plot holes in KH2 were answered (just as ajmrowland said), and it wasn't a huge stretch. The inclusion of another set of original villains was a great addition, in my opinion, as working with only Disney villains can really only get you so far. Yes, it was awesome in the first game, but I can't imagine how they would expand the series and keep going with sequels when the main focus is on Disney villains. Not to say they suck- I think they're awesome. But you also have to remember that they only care about their world, for the most part, and their "working together" in KHI was really shortlived as well. They kind of went on their own business most of the time.
It's really not all that large I said it started there not that it's the game that made it completely retarded(the storyline that is).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
It's really not all that large I said it started there not that it's the game that made it completely retarded(the storyline that is).
Okay, I might've slightly interpreted your response wrong- backtracking a little, I guess what I meant by "complicated plot" in one of my earlier posts was how it got "badly complicated." Like, how it got more complicated, but with more "out of the blue" conventions and plot points and characters. I guess I should have made that clear in that post- and that caused me to sort of get the wrong impression out of yours. xD
Perhaps this is true... but also note that in the game, the Fairy Godmother herself isn't really clear on the whole dark vs. light thing. She merely says that light and dark go hand in hand, and that fighting darkness with light isn't always the best thing to do. What she tells Aqua is merely a small spark of a greater idea.
She also says that Aqua should experience more to find the answer to how to fight darkness, "if not with light." Honestly, the way I always saw it was that Aqua was on a "journey" to find that answer, whether she meant to be on it or not. Only problem is that her "journey" is interrupted with Master Xehanort's plans and Vanitas constantly. And with her master's death, and her friends' lives and everything at stake, I find it normal for her to push what the FGM said behind her... there were other more important things going on in that game, in which case, Aqua's short lesson had to be "forgotten," or at least, she had to re-prioritize what was more urgent.
I see it a lot like them just dropping a hint that's not important now, but may be in the future. This might be weird, but it's sort of like in book series, where the author can drop a hint in the first book, never mention it again in that book, but it becomes a huge deal later on in the series (Harry Potter, for example, did this a lot).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Some of this i agree with some i dont.
When i first played KH i loved how action oriented the game and how fast paced it was compared to RPGs and FF games. Granted KH2 was unbelievably easy it was fun for me very fast paced and the story Rocks. (plus flowmotion... just awesome) I know some people cant stand the story line, especially with 3D, but imo i love it. I dont find it confusing and i know none of it was really planned at all but i honestly think Nomura did a good job with somehow putting all the titles together. I agree that the game needs more NPCs... without a doubt, way to dead like in Olympus or Cinderella where theres nobody!! More FF would be awesome, and something that i have always wanted is to have the Destiny islands as a world fulll blown. The area in KH where you first start as well as the bigger island where we everyone lives where we see Kairi and Selphie in KH2 they should blow that place up make it the Twilight Town of KH3 imo. with MORE FF cameos. Still think the game has the same light hearted and touching feeling its always had.
Also really love the Goofy love!! Donald annoys the piss out of me but i love goofy.
And i know it, you know it, we all know it, we ALL cried on our very first KH2 playthrough when goofy got hit by the boulder and thought he died.... we ALL cried :'(
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'm sorry that I did not read all the posts, but I had to give my two cents since well this bugged me of the longest time.
I agree with everything that is said in this article. Kh, although a bland platforming action adventure title to some, always had something going for it and that was it had a lot of heart(no pun intended). It put innovation at its core giving us what a real time final fantasy would look like, blending all the corresponding elements of older square titles and giving it the freedom from all the battle systems of the ff series. The heartless gave us a sense of progression like nothing before as we start with the x spammable lowly shadow all the way up to the gargoyle heartless that took to evading you and then swiping when it got the chance, each enemy evolved as you progressed forcing you to adapt to their patterns. The boss battles got a huge leap from this as the battles not only relied on how strong you were in level, but in reflexes as well(not to say its fast paced in any means, but correct timing goes a long way from victory to defeat). All of this though does not compare to its main attraction, the theme of kh.
Darkness and light, easily the two most recognizable comparisons to good and evil. This subject is easily relatable as everyone has both sides to them. Yet what they bring to table are far from the typical bad guy vs good guy plot. Sure sora our protagonist is the good guy and the Disney villains the bad, but I speak for the heartless. They are what we can call pure, entities of our darkest feelings given form. We all know of feeling something that is bad morally( jealousy, envy) but cannot help not to feel that way. They represent our innermost desires, something we all know that is a part of us no matter how much we resist. Throughout kh sora struggles with this entity as riku reveals his shortcomings, telling him he is nothing more than a delivery boy. Yet he finds it in his heart to do the right thing, Kairi the source of this power. She is a princess of heart(this should be no spoiler, I mean we're in kh site) and as such is light at its purest form. Not a shred of darkness can be found in her or the other princesses which ironically makes her a one dimensional character , which all the princess are in actuality. She brings happiness to sora and he would go to great lengths to preserve that happiness. The elements of the light and darkness give so much to the story than a simple save the princess/world tale as it gives us a grey area of what exactly is good and evil in this world.
Now I'm probably just giving my own interpretation to the kh story as many have and with what nomura has done with the series thus far thus probably had become null and void as an interpretation. In the kh sequels we are given too much ideas without detail( a witch who can mess with memories, people who make up our other half). With the heartless it was natural to understand them, but with the nobodies they're what our skin? As for the triangle command it took some of that feeling of victory away as we watched sora do amazing stuff, not do it ourselves.
Well thanks for the read, I have a lot to say on the matter, but I just wanted to get some main points across.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Some of this i agree with some i dont.
When i first played KH i loved how action oriented the game and how fast paced it was compared to RPGs and FF games. Granted KH2 was unbelievably easy it was fun for me very fast paced and the story Rocks. (plus flowmotion... just awesome) I know some people cant stand the story line, especially with 3D, but imo i love it. I dont find it confusing and i know none of it was really planned at all but i honestly think Nomura did a good job with somehow putting all the titles together. I agree that the game needs more NPCs... without a doubt, way to dead like in Olympus or Cinderella where theres nobody!! More FF would be awesome, and something that i have always wanted is to have the Destiny islands as a world fulll blown. The area in KH where you first start as well as the bigger island where we everyone lives where we see Kairi and Selphie in KH2 they should blow that place up make it the Twilight Town of KH3 imo. with MORE FF cameos. Still think the game has the same light hearted and touching feeling its always had.
Also really love the Goofy love!! Donald annoys the piss out of me but i love goofy.
And i know it, you know it, we all know it, we ALL cried on our very first KH2 playthrough when goofy got hit by the boulder and thought he died.... we ALL cried :'(
I didn't because by that time I realized how stupid the game was and how I spent $50 on a bogus game. Really the only scene I've ever shed any tear at came from KH1(you know).
Plus it's over-dramatic or melodramatic whichever one you want to use.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I still stand by what I said about the stuff about them not necessarily carrying over their lessons and growth.
They were with Eraqus and his beliefs for a long time, and once they went out and saw the world, three young people mind you, you'd think they'd compare their values and lessons to those they learn.
Terra is more forgivable because, despite the fact he still ends up giving into the darkness (for his friends or any other reason), he understands the importance of his friends and how gaining power to protect your friends is better than simply being powerful.
Ven I guess goes through something similar with making new friends instead of just looking for Terra and listening to Aqua's bossy master voice. But he ends up doubting Terra, perhaps with reason with the way Terra's been acting, I suppose, but doubting your friend because a masked stranger and an evil fairy tells you too is kinda weird. Especially since they've been together for so long. If anything he should have been blindly believing in Terra in such a circumstance.
Aqua. I love her. I do. One of my favorite characters but I think she's a victim of the pen if anything. If you introduce the idea that too much light or force is not the right way to go about things, then why have her ignore this and never give her a reason to believe said lesson? I mean, she spies on Terra, though she told Eraqus that terra wouldn't let them down. Okay, honoring your master's orders. Then you have her following Terra, doubting him from the get go, as if the whole, he's stronger than you think, was trying to convince herself that rather than Eraqus which would be an interesting take on things. She needs the testimony of other characters to assure, almost remind her, that her friend of who knows how many years isn't a bad guy. The radiant garden scene where she practically throws Terra's insecurities in his face, even disappointed ven, and yet you don't really get that apologetic feeling from her. In the end because of vanitas and Xehanort and the Disney villains she goes out, believing with all her might that darkness is evil. An Eraqus 2.0 in the making. Which I hope is a setup for her to meet Riku as stated before by another member, because her ideals are rather outdated. If they want to keep her as that character, the girl who hates darkness then fine I suppose. But if you're gonna have her be told that too much light is something to think about and she doesn't then I kinda have a problem with that.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Okay, I might've slightly interpreted your response wrong- backtracking a little, I guess what I meant by "complicated plot" in one of my earlier posts was how it got "badly complicated." Like, how it got more complicated, but with more "out of the blue" conventions and plot points and characters. I guess I should have made that clear in that post- and that caused me to sort of get the wrong impression out of yours. xD
Perhaps this is true... but also note that in the game, the Fairy Godmother herself isn't really clear on the whole dark vs. light thing. She merely says that light and dark go hand in hand, and that fighting darkness with light isn't always the best thing to do. What she tells Aqua is merely a small spark of a greater idea.
She also says that Aqua should experience more to find the answer to how to fight darkness, "if not with light." Honestly, the way I always saw it was that Aqua was on a "journey" to find that answer, whether she meant to be on it or not. Only problem is that her "journey" is interrupted with Master Xehanort's plans and Vanitas constantly. And with her master's death, and her friends' lives and everything at stake, I find it normal for her to push what the FGM said behind her... there were other more important things going on in that game, in which case, Aqua's short lesson had to be "forgotten," or at least, she had to re-prioritize what was more urgent.
I see it a lot like them just dropping a hint that's not important now, but may be in the future. This might be weird, but it's sort of like in book series, where the author can drop a hint in the first book, never mention it again in that book, but it becomes a huge deal later on in the series (Harry Potter, for example, did this a lot).
Although Ruran makes a legitimate point in regards to the writing, one must also remember that shortly after visiting Castle Dreams and into Dwarf Woodlands and Enchanted Dominion, Aqua is convinced that Terra would never succumb to darkness until Maleficent mentions to her about Master Xehanort and how Terra is doomed to fall into darkness. She stresses this a lot and with Master Eraqus' warning, maybe Aqua took that into consideration.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I still stand by what I said about the stuff about them not necessarily carrying over their lessons and growth.
They were with Eraqus and his beliefs for a long time, and once they went out and saw the world, three young people mind you, you'd think they'd compare their values and lessons to those they learn.
Terra is more forgivable because, despite the fact he still ends up giving into the darkness (for his friends or any other reason), he understands the importance of his friends and how gaining power to protect your friends is better than simply being powerful.
Ven I guess goes through something similar with making new friends instead of just looking for Terra and listening to Aqua's bossy master voice. But he ends up doubting Terra, perhaps with reason with the way Terra's been acting, I suppose, but doubting your friend because a masked stranger and an evil fairy tells you too is kinda weird. Especially since they've been together for so long. If anything he should have been blindly believing in Terra in such a circumstance.
Aqua. I love her. I do. One of my favorite characters but I think she's a victim of the pen if anything. If you introduce the idea that too much light or force is not the right way to go about things, then why have her ignore this and never give her a reason to believe said lesson? I mean, she spies on Terra, though she told Eraqus that terra wouldn't let them down. Okay, honoring your master's orders. Then you have her following Terra, doubting him from the get go, as if the whole, he's stronger than you think, was trying to convince herself that rather than Eraqus which would be an interesting take on things. She needs the testimony of other characters to assure, almost remind her, that her friend of who knows how many years isn't a bad guy. The radiant garden scene where she practically throws Terra's insecurities in his face, even disappointed ven, and yet you don't really get that apologetic feeling from her. In the end because of vanitas and Xehanort and the Disney villains she goes out, believing with all her might that darkness is evil. An Eraqus 2.0 in the making. Which I hope is a setup for her to meet Riku as stated before by another member, because her ideals are rather outdated. If they want to keep her as that character, the girl who hates darkness then fine I suppose. But if you're gonna have her be told that too much light is something to think about and she doesn't then I kinda have a problem with that.
It's hard to say that she totally ignored FGM's words- pretty much what the FGM tells her is that you can't always fight darkness with light, and that there's more to their relationship than you think. Who knows, this scene might've been there just to imply that the ideas in BBS are outdated. (Darkness = bad; Light = good; not so true if you look at any games past CoM.) That's probably how I thought of it the first time I saw that scene: "FGM is right! Just look at Riku in CoM!" And Aqua doesn't exactly constantly boast about having to use light for fight darkness in the game. She just tells Terra to stay away and don't get too close to the dark. Which, however you look at it, is still true; putting yourself too close to the darkness is a bad thing.
I really think that's just a part of Aqua's character. From the get-go, she's portrayed as the older, more mature "sister-type" to both Terra and Ventus, and it's also obvious that that is how she sees herself as well. She cares for them both, a lot, and just because she doesn't have enough faith in them, it doesn't mean that she loves them any less. Whether or not it she should have had more faith in both Terra and Ven, she was just taking on the role as the older sister, and she took Master Eraqus's words to heart (partly because she is a keyblade master, whether she admits it or not, and also partly because she knows from experience how less mature Terra and Ven could be), and took it in herself to become their "guardians."
She threw it in his face hard at Radiant Garden because she had assumed the worst of Terra (perhaps wrongly, but also because the worst is what she was most afraid of), and obviously, this hit her hard. Note that the point where she really starts doubting Terra is when Maleficent tells her about what he "did" with Aurora. Maybe it is about lack of faith, but it's also about how much Aqua cares for them that she will assume the worst so that she can stop it. In a way, she's just the complete opposite of Ven, who, for the most part, follows Terra blindly like a puppy.
I guess that's a bit how I am, as an oldest sibling. If I heard about something bad that my younger sibling(s) might've done, no matter who it is, maybe I wouldn't jump on board and believe them right away. But I would consider what they said- even lies have to come from some sort of truth, right? And yes, I would keep an extra eye on them. Maybe this isn't the right way to approach things to some people, but this is how I would approach things, and it's how Aqua did. And the way Terra acts isn't exactly comforting when they do meet at Radiant Garden- he seems obsessed with finding this Vanitas fellow, of whom Aqua hasn't heard of, and isn't doing "what the Master told them to do." The fact that he deviated from their orders at all worries her that perhaps he's doing more deviating than he's showing, or even knows himself (and well, she turns out to be right, doesn't she?). And I actually think she did sound apologetic afterward. Maybe not regretting what she did, but she does sound apologetic. At least, that's what I always got from that scene.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
No offense, but I just have to know - what is the point in complaining like this? I read it not too long ago, and the entire time I was thinking - what will this do? I mean, unless the people who make KH look at it, I don't see anything. If anything, it can sadden some people who love the game and possibly change their PoV. Would that be right since then you're taking joy from them? I'm sorry if this sounds mean, especially for my first post, but I truly did not get it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
No offense, but I just have to know - what is the point in complaining like this? I read it not too long ago, and the entire time I was thinking - what will this do? I mean, unless the people who make KH look at it, I don't see anything. If anything, it can sadden some people who love the game and possibly change their PoV. Would that be right since then you're taking joy from them? I'm sorry if this sounds mean, especially for my first post, but I truly did not get it.
Because people throw out opinions for the purpose of discussion.
Why do any of us talk about the series at all? For discussion.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
No offense, but I just have to know - what is the point in complaining like this? I read it not too long ago, and the entire time I was thinking - what will this do? I mean, unless the people who make KH look at it, I don't see anything. If anything, it can sadden some people who love the game and possibly change their PoV. Would that be right since then you're taking joy from them? I'm sorry if this sounds mean, especially for my first post, but I truly did not get it.
it's just an editorial. Sites do stuff like this all the time; it generates discussion in a certain topic (this one being KH). and don't worry, there's an editorial prior to this one (by Celtis, again) in which he discusses why he liked the series in the first place. that one is also a good read and also allowed for self-reflection regarding the series.
all in all, its just in good fun. content is content.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
It's actually interesting to read, for the most part. I don't agree with most of what was written in the editorial but I'm not going to lie about some of the things I find fucking INFURIATING and grating about Kingdom Hearts. Luckily, most fans seem to be neutral in regards to many aspects of the series.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
First off I would like to say that I completely agree with you and that I understand where you're coming from. Since KH2, I feel as though every game has been a mimic or expansion gameplay-wise. Storyline-wise, as you said, has indeed become very complex and comfusing almost to a point where no one knows for certain has happened. Let's take a minute to explain part of this complex storyline thusfar in the series. Xion....her first and only apperance (unless you count the figure in KH2 to be her, here's a youtube link if you wanna check it out Kingdom Hearts 2 Cutscenes - Part 5 - YouTube pause it around 4:52 and you'll see the theoried Xion). But Xion.....is derrived from Sora's memorries........who like Roxas, is also derrived from Sora..........whose Keyblade ability is derrived from Ventus.....who would have died i believe if it were not for Sora.....who presently has Ven's heart "asleep" within Sora's own heart....Yeah it's very awkward and complex. I do understand Nomura's attempt to keep the series unpredictable but this is rediculous. I miss the concept of working your way up from Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, and the other spells to stronger versions. In both KH3D and Birth by Sleep I had already had the -aga's of these very spells before I arrived to the Radiant Gardern (-_-).
You aren't offf-base at all. I'm sure that other people besides yourself felt the same way. The series is taking a turn for the worst and I feel as though if a change isn't made, less and less people will continue to play the series. They to need to, as you said, get back to the basics, but also they need to produce games at a faster rate. I mean if you look at KH, CoM, and KH2, the games you seem to have enjoyed most, those all were released 2 years apart from each other. Then the next major installment was BbS, according to Normura, and that game didn't come out until 4 years after KH2. So what did Square do? They put minor twists in the game that came out before it [Days] so that it would buy time and keep the gamers wondering. Days was terrible let's face the music, unless you're a die-hard Roxas fan then yeah rock on, but it wasn't that good. The only information that could have been worthwhile from the game was the fact Xion was derrived from Roxas, Xion took on different apperences to different people and that she was gone. Oh and we also learned about what Axel was talking about in KH2 about Roxas and him being friends, but I was sufficiatly content with soley the Jiminy entry on Roxas being XIII to explain it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Xion's slimmer than that, but who knows?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Things went downhill quite quickly after the Disney aspect stopped being relevant. The best part about the first game, imo, was the fact that each world tied into the overarching plot in some way--all the way up to the genuinely amazing finale at Hollow Bastion.
Now the Disney aspect seems secondary. In Kingdom Hearts II the actual plot happens off screen while Sora helps unite Disney couples. There were no scenes of the Organization "plotting" like there were in of the villains in KH1. Maleficent was completely ruined as a character. Sora, Donald, and Goofy did little else than introduce themselves to people. Idk.
I adore the first game, and CoM, and even KHII. But after realizing that KHII failed to follow through on the promise, I have slowly cared less and less about new releases. I don't have the money to buy all of these game systems, first of all, which is a shame because I used to be so devoted to the series. I don't know when I will play KH3D.
I enjoyed Days for what it was, and coded as well. BBS I would rate as a success, actually. But I think the series is suffering from a lack of focus. It needs to get back to being about Sora. We need another classic, epic adventure story out of KHIII.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I personally still love the Kingdom Hearts games. Well, the main ones. I could do without reCoded and.... Uh, 350 something over something. Sheesh, I can never remember the name of that game. I enjoyed it, but they were quite repetitive. But each had their own part of the story that had to be added in, though I would have liked it if they had made them more original. Though everything else? Yes, the story line confused me a bit, but at the same time I understood it. And how can you say Nomura pulled all these ideas out of his butthole? You can never know the mind of the creator. And I can see others do that all the time. I think he's doing quite well at it. If the story line is getting a bit tangled... Why not just see where it goes from there? You may be answered, you never know. I am just waiting to see. I also enjoyed the simplicity of the gameplay. Although it may get old to others, it was nice to just have fun fighting and not have to over think everything. I really enjoyed 3D because it was still simple fighting, but it also added in the new systesm while still keeping it pretty simple. Although the nightmares were not even really bad or anything, but it was kinda fun and actually reminded me of the childishness I often associate with Disney, so while you all say there is none of that, I could see it. I loved playing the different Disney worlds, and although they didn't really affect the entire picture of the World too much, they helped develop Riku and Sora.
Really, I love this game series. I'm a bit sad to see some of you not liking/hating KH now, and I hope you can find enjoyment in other games that KH gives m3.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I agree Celtis, but I still generally like the series. I do believe that the series has gotten worse since KH1, but I still enjoy the new ones, even if they aren't as special as KH1.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I personally still love the Kingdom Hearts games. Well, the main ones. I could do without reCoded and.... Uh, 350 something over something. Sheesh, I can never remember the name of that game. I enjoyed it, but they were quite repetitive. But each had their own part of the story that had to be added in, though I would have liked it if they had made them more original. Though everything else? Yes, the story line confused me a bit, but at the same time I understood it. And how can you say Nomura pulled all these ideas out of his butthole? You can never know the mind of the creator. And I can see others do that all the time. I think he's doing quite well at it. If the story line is getting a bit tangled... Why not just see where it goes from there? You may be answered, you never know. I am just waiting to see. I also enjoyed the simplicity of the gameplay. Although it may get old to others, it was nice to just have fun fighting and not have to over think everything. I really enjoyed 3D because it was still simple fighting, but it also added in the new systesm while still keeping it pretty simple. Although the nightmares were not even really bad or anything, but it was kinda fun and actually reminded me of the childishness I often associate with Disney, so while you all say there is none of that, I could see it. I loved playing the different Disney worlds, and although they didn't really affect the entire picture of the World too much, they helped develop Riku and Sora.
Really, I love this game series. I'm a bit sad to see some of you not liking/hating KH now, and I hope you can find enjoyment in other games that KH gives m3.
The reason for the "Nomura is pulling stuff out his ass" remark is when you look at the entire series a lot of it is like how did we get here from there?
KH1 wasn't perfect, but it had a lot more going for it than the rest of the series. Had Charm, Adventure, Platforming, Mystery, and hell it did something no one thought would be successful.
People keep saying the story is confusing it's not it's just down right pitiful in some years when I'm off this site, and probably stop playing games like I do today. I'll probably look back on this game, and be like who the heck were the villains?
I might be harsh on the pitiful part, but the story after the first two games and a few hit and misses in-between leaves a heck of lot to be desired.
Which is why looking back this game should have probably been a standalone title with no sequels or either that or ended at KH2(as bad or good as it was to people).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I still love Kingdom Hearts. I remember wanting to play Kingdom Hearts because my Aunt and Uncle always played it. I remember Destiny Islands, the Final Fantasy characters, and the disney characters. I love the first game for many reasons. First it brings Nostalgia whenever I think about it. Second it was a great game with a unique storyline. Last of all, the characters were full of heart and were silly at times. Even though the other games might not have lived up to the first game, most sequels don't. I do feel sad though that the game series is losing its Disney magic.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| And how can you say Nomura pulled all these ideas out of his butthole? You can never know the mind of the creator. |
Nomura has previously stated that he's kind of making up it as he goes along and he doesnt seem to be taking it that seriously.
If KH3D is any indication this is pretty much right on the money. If the creator isn't taking it seriously why should anyone else?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
1. Half the fun for me is scratching my head over the tangled plot and stuff, although I do agree, time travel as a function of darkness is a bit of a doozy
2. I feel like the series is making a U-Turn back into the same autumn feeling as KH1 while retaining some of the wintry landscapes of KH2
3. If you all are so annoyed with the plot, go get Morgan Freeman. I'm sure he'd be willing to earn more freckles. :tongue:
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Nomura has previously stated that he's kind of making up it as he goes along and he doesnt seem to be taking it that seriously.
If KH3D is any indication this is pretty much right on the money. If the creator isn't taking it seriously why should anyone else?
Hit it on the head and very simplified thumbs up.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
3. If you all are so annoyed with the plot, go get Morgan Freeman. I'm sure he'd be willing to earn more freckles. :tongue:
I have no idea what that means.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
If KH3D is any indication this is pretty much right on the money. If the creator isn't taking it seriously why should anyone else?
While you have a good point, it's essentially a spit in the eye of the portion of the fanbase who have taken the plot seriously.
Personally, I gave up after Days when it came to keeping up with the games in general; only one I played out of the 3 side stories. I knew things were getting strange at KH2 (well, stranger), but time travel was a case of chevoks gun-- and I was hoping it would stay that way.. boy was I wrong. Nomura, it wouldn't kill you to have a competent writer on the team, because the plot shouldn't have gone from complex to an convoluted mess at the tip of a hat.
3. If you all are so annoyed with the plot, go get Morgan Freeman. I'm sure he'd be willing to earn more freckles. :tongue:
I have no idea what that means.
Pretty sure that was a reference to this.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I have no idea what that means.
It means...............It means I got nothing maybe he likes March of the Penguins.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
When I played Birth by Sleep, all I did was tap the X button like a madman until I built up until I was able to use the “forms” (if that’s what they’re called) that let you pull off more extreme combos by –you guessed it– tapping the X button some more. |
I really doubt that. If all you did was tap the X button in BBS, you probably didn't even know how to play the damn game. BBS's gameplay was much more complex than pressing the X button or the triangle button for commands. You probably just hated the game too much to appreciate it.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I really do mostly agree with you, though I still love Kingdom Hearts a lot. But I think my extreme love for it is blinding me from the bad points of the series, from both as a whole and as separate games. This line stood out to me:
It’s not like they ever came together. The characters there were only supposed to be important because they were Disney characters, not because they were Disney characters who also influenced what went on with the story as a whole. |
This is very, very true. I never really realized it until I read this post. All the games after the first one are veering away from the Disney aspect of Kingdom Hearts, and they're moving towards their own complicated story. The Disney worlds aren't all that important to the plot any more, they're just...there. If we took them away from KH completely, then I feel that the whole series would be kind of bland. That's why I love the first game, because it was magical and nostalgic and the characters were actually involved, instead of just being side-stories like they are now.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I really doubt that. If all you did was tap the X button in BBS, you probably didn't even know how to play the damn game. BBS's gameplay was much more complex than pressing the X button or the triangle button for commands. You probably just hated the game too much to appreciate it.
No? I played through it with as open a mind as I could have possibly had. I don't hate the game. I think it's a step up from the less-than-mediocrity that are Days and Coded, but I would never go so far as to say it's something that I could ever appreciate regardless of the fact that I can admit it's better than the other games in the series (which, given the track record, is hardly an accomplishment).
I did not hate BBS. I found it, like most other entries, shallow and underwhelming. Insulting me by basically calling me ignorant and excruciatingly biased is silly of you.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
^I can agree largely with that, but the battle system was still much less sallow than just mashing x, at least when you found a boss that washard enough on critical mode to make you wanna start command melding.
As for coded and Days, well, one had mediocre gameplay and the other a mediocre story. But I still liked them enough to wanna play them.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
The story has gotten ridiculous. Up through KH2 the story was complex but still easy to understand if you gave it some thought. I liked the story in BBS also, but the three handhelds were where the story started to get a little confusing. One thing that really annoys me about the series is that the only reason Xion was even created by Nomura was because Nintendo asked him to make a KH game for the DS. So he thought up a story that he hadn't planned out beforehand, and had to make it work so that it would make sense that there were absolutely no references to Xion in the games that had been released already. 3D is when the story really disappointed me. If I have to go on the Internet and read through several pages of a thread to explain time travel, then the story has gotten too confusing. I'm almost positive that Nomura hadn't had it in mind even while making KH2. I really never thought that a game with a story as good as KH1's would end up going in this direction.*
Even with all the problems the story has now, I still think the series' biggest flaw is its spread across so many platforms. I'd love to play DDD, but is it really practical for me, or anyone, to pay $230+ to play one game? I'm sure there are other good games for the 3DS, but I'm just not interested in playing them. So I had to settle with watching a walkthrough on YouTube, just like i did for Days (I didn't even bother watching Coded, only the secret ending). I bought a used PSP to play BBS and I loved it, but ended up selling it soon after i finished playing BBS. At least Square is trying to fix this by putting out the remasters, which i am looking forward to, but I just wish they had never made this mistake in the first place. The series would be much better off if Days and Coded were never made, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this. Backstory of Roxas' time with the organization could have been implemented in KH2 through cutscenes, and without Xion.*
Lastly, I don't want to sound like the typical KH fan whining about KH3, but seriously, come on. I know they're busy with Versus, yada yada yada. Hopefully it's released before KH2's 10 year anniversary. If I hadn't gotten so attached to the series after KH1, CoM, and KH2, I would've left this series a long time ago.*
Don't get me wrong, I do still love KH as a series, I just can't ignore its flaws anymore.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
[FONT=Verdana]Form my experience with the Kingdom Hearts series, the games were never too challenging (except when I was young but that was due to the fact that I was an inexperience little kid); the game did have the occasional mind numbing boss fight (dark Riku…) but those were few and far between for me. The more recent games are easier to play (KHII with its reaction commands) but I still find them to be entertaining to play.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]You commented on the story and how convoluted it has become, this I would have to agree with. The first game was simple in comparison to its sequels but I took this as a gateway game to what Square could make with the series, and like with any good JRPG game one would have to expect the story getting botched like KH did.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]In regarding the balance of Square and Disney characters I would say both sides need more added in; the first game had a good balance but my friends and I wanted more from both companies.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]I haven’t grow out of the franchise but I can say there are plot holes and at times it feels like they read fan fiction for inspiration.[/FONT]
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
The story has gotten ridiculous. Up through KH2 the story was complex but still easy to understand if you gave it some thought. I liked the story in BBS also, but the three handhelds were where the story started to get a little confusing. One thing that really annoys me about the series is that the only reason Xion was even created by Nomura was because Nintendo asked him to make a KH game for the DS. So he thought up a story that he hadn't planned out beforehand, and had to make it work so that it would make sense that there were absolutely no references to Xion in the games that had been released already. 3D is when the story really disappointed me. If I have to go on the Internet and read through several pages of a thread to explain time travel, then the story has gotten too confusing. I'm almost positive that Nomura hadn't had it in mind even while making KH2. I really never thought that a game with a story as good as KH1's would end up going in this direction.*
Don't get me wrong, I do still love KH as a series, I just can't ignore its flaws anymore.
agreed, but up until DDD the story was still somewhat easy to understand. A little convoluted-okay *very* convoluted-but most of it was actually told in-game.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I'm almost positive that Nomura hadn't had it in mind even while making KH2.
I think there was an interview not so long ago where Nomura explained about the story. That he has the "framework" of the overall plot completely in mind but not worked out in detail and normally plans one or two games ahead.
Meaning while working on KH 1 he already had concepts for Chain of Memories and KH 2, but wasn't sure if they would ever see the light.
While he was still working on KH 2 he worked on the three Handheld titles concepts, although only BBS was initially there because it was planned by Square from the beginning. Days was a rough concept that got only into detailed work (and if I remember Nomura correctly "outsourced" to Kanemaki as scenario writer) after Nintendo asked for a KH-game on DS while Coded (the original Phone-version!) was requested as a lightweight title by Disney.
As for DDD, Nomura admitted that he was still working out the kinks on the scenario when development became so fast which caused him to rush certain parts of the story.
agreed, but up until DDD the story was still somewhat easy to understand. A little convoluted-okay *very* convoluted-but most of it was actually told in-game.
"Told" in-game is also, as I am not afraid to admit, depending on the issue as some things are also often only described in the journals.
Heck, some clarifications for things that happened in Days, KH 2, BBS or Coded are even "only" mentioned in the chronicles of the respective games in DDD.
Then there's of course the stuff that gets only clarified in the interviews, which are mostly in the Ultimania guides, which ARE guide books that can be bought, but as so often only in Japan, leaving people from other countries (or simply newbies) who might want an easy access to the KH mythology out.
In terms of convoluted even DDD is a mixed bag, as all the dream-inception willy-wally (like Riku being in a second dream layer in TWTNW) isn't really that hard to understand and the bit about hearts being able to "spawn/being born" inside beings that shouldn't (theoretically, O-Ton Nomura) have one was hinted even way back in Chain of Memories which got further hints along the road in KH 2 and specifically Coded.
I agree though that the time-travel jibba-jabba throws in some needlessly complicated twists, also since Merlin and Yen Sid seem to be able to forego the "rules" in some aspects.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Honestly i dont get why you guys are bitching about the KH storyline but in my personal opinion , i like it very much.
The reason why is because it makes you think about stuff even after completing the game, i personally like solving mysteries and all that complecated stuff. KH1 has to be the greatest game i have ever played (altough KH2 and BBS enjoyed more ) because it reminds me of my childhood so much and i honeslty dont think the Kh plot is mediocre, i mean KH3 hasn t even been released for christ sake !altough i must admit the timetravelling thing went a bit too far Kh is still not finished! KH still has that magical feel about it even in KH3D to be honest . And if you Guys have given up on KH why are you even on this site ?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Honestly i dont get why you guys are bitching about the KH storyline but in my personal opinion , i like it very much.
The reason why is because it makes you think about stuff even after completing the game, i personally like solving mysteries and all that complecated stuff. KH1 has to be the greatest game i have ever played (altough KH2 and BBS enjoyed more ) because it reminds me of my childhood so much and i honeslty dont think the Kh plot is mediocre, i mean KH3 hasn t even been released for christ sake !altough i must admit the timetravelling thing went a bit too far Kh is still not finished! KH still has that magical feel about it even in KH3D to be honest . And if you Guys have given up on KH why are you even on this site ?
I can't speak for Celtis or others, but acknowledging the faults in the story does not deter people from enjoying the series. For me, I think KH2 is absolute crap but I still have a lot of fond memories of playing it. I think Days added in unnecessary plot details that have created many inconsistencies in both past and future games, but I love the bits of charm within RAX's interactions. Re:coded was extremely unnecessary as a game but it remains my guilty pleasure. I love KH3D even though I hate the fact it brought time travel to the forefront of the story after it was used briefly in KH2 in a different way for a different reason, and recognize that there are plenty of issues with the use of Disney in the series.
Does it matter why we are on this site? Some members joined while they loved/liked/played KH and stuck around for other reasons. Other are here because we still love KH and see faults within it. Then there are the few who joined for a reason unrelated to KH.
/rant
Everybody enjoys the series in different ways.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Honestly i dont get why you guys are bitching about the KH storyline but in my personal opinion , i like it very much.
The reason why is because it makes you think about stuff even after completing the game, i personally like solving mysteries and all that complecated stuff. KH1 has to be the greatest game i have ever played (altough KH2 and BBS enjoyed more ) because it reminds me of my childhood so much and i honeslty dont think the Kh plot is mediocre, i mean KH3 hasn t even been released for christ sake !altough i must admit the timetravelling thing went a bit too far Kh is still not finished! KH still has that magical feel about it even in KH3D to be honest . And if you Guys have given up on KH why are you even on this site ?
There have been 7 games in this series the fuck does KH3 have to do with if someone finds the plot subpar/mediocre/ or down right awful(trust me there are some).
As for your last bit there is more to this site than KH news/discussions/theories and stuff. Just like any other site with a forum I know of. Plus on top of that a lot of us joined this site long ago back when KH wasn't getting talked about like this. I've been apart of this site since like 2004(banned once).
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Ok i may have gone to far in saying about people joining this site my bad, but what i am saying is that KH3 is the Final game and who know if it will reveal all the answers to our questions? Plus i accpet everyone personal opinion(if you hate it good for you). And then people start to blame Nomuras bad writing by making the story to complicated. I mean Nomuras writing may not be the best( in sense of actually making sense)but its still different from all the other games out there that have basically the same sort of boring straightforward story. Don t get me wrong i love some games with straightforward storys( Unchaterd 3 Infamous 2 LOOOVED Uncharted 3)but kh is something different it is nice to have a change for awhile and as for celtis i perfeclty understand how he fell out of love about the Kh series all i don t like is the way people critisze the storys as if it the worst thing that they ever played. I myself recognise the faults inthe KH series but it doesn t stop me from loving it . But that s just me every one has their opinion.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Ok i may have gone to far in saying about people joining this site my bad, but what i am saying is that KH3 is the Final game and who know if it will reveal all the answers to our questions? Plus i accpet everyone personal opinion(if you hate it good for you). And then people start to blame Nomuras bad writing by making the story to complicated. I mean Nomuras writing may not be the best( in sense of actually making sense)but its still different from all the other games out there that have basically the same sort of boring straightforward story. Don t get me wrong i love some games with straightforward storys( Unchaterd 3 Infamous 2 LOOOVED Uncharted 3)but kh is something different it is nice to have a change for awhile and as for celtis i perfeclty understand how he fell out of love about the Kh series all i don t like is the way people critisze the storys as if it the worst thing that they ever played. I myself recognise the faults inthe KH series but it doesn t stop me from loving it . But that s just me every one has their opinion.
We already know KH3 isn't the final game(which to people like me is a mistake) it's a final game in this trilogy, and most people have said they'll stick around for this, but some like me have said once this is out it's over. Why you might ask because again some people feel as though Nomura pulls this stuff out his butt and he even himself admitted to making certain games up as he goes. Which for me is a just asking for some epic failures to come your way, and which if you read the OP it sort of has.
Me personally I feel like Nomura and crew are just trying to make this game complicated for the sake of complication. Even people themselves on this site were put off on the Time-Travel aspect of DDD that's been well documented.
I'm not going to say it's the worse story I've seen in a game, but when looking back at this series that first started in 2002 up till now it's extremely subpar/mediocre in my opinion. Even Celtis did the same thing going back and looking at each game.
One reason other games probably won't get this much flap about their stories is they don't span for so many games. At least that's my theory, and one reason for that they didn't necessarily classify KH1, COM, and KH2 as a trilogy like a God of War, Jak and Daxter, and Sly Cooper as examples.
Which means you set yourself up for more criticism.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I really doubt that. If all you did was tap the X button in BBS, you probably didn't even know how to play the damn game. BBS's gameplay was much more complex than pressing the X button or the triangle button for commands. You probably just hated the game too much to appreciate it.
It's funny because reading this description makes me think of KH1 and KH2's gameplay. (I know I'm like the 1% who think this, but KH1 is easily the weakest in terms of battle system) I don't understand how people can make claims like "BBS is just tapping X button!" and yet KH1 somehow gets a free pass when it's even WORSE in that regard.
You know, the KH community is pretty much the Sonic community at this point. People will always say that the first games were better, when in reality they aren't that good (Sonic Generations' gameplay is much better than SA1/SA2)
I don't get it. (inb4 some khinsider person makes the dumb remark "U don't listen!1!!11!!!1")
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
It's funny because reading this description makes me think of KH1 and KH2's gameplay. (I know I'm like the 1% who think this, but KH1 is easily the weakest in terms of battle system) I don't understand how people can make claims like "BBS is just tapping X button!" and yet KH1 somehow gets a free pass when it's even WORSE in that regard.
You know, the KH community is pretty much the Sonic community at this point. People will always say that the first games were better, when in reality they aren't that good (Sonic Generations' gameplay is much better than SA1/SA2)
I don't get it. (inb4 some khinsider person makes the dumb remark "U don't listen!1!!11!!!1")
Man that's a tough one look I've said like some others in other threads that I know I give KH1 more credit than the rest of the series, and after playing it again, or looking back at it some it didn't deserve.
Thing is though KH1 had the magic/charm most of the others didn't have and if you remember it's history(doomed to fail by the masses) then you'd probably see why most people have it on a high stand compared to the others.
As for the thing about SA1/SA2 one other thing I might add it's all relative to the time period Sonic had just gone 3D(with other games doing the same(Link and Mario come to mind)) with those two games so yeah looking back after a decade it does seem like those two are overrated, but at that point no one cared because it was successful.
Now as for battle systems you're on your own KH2.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Thing is though KH1 had the magic/charm most of the others didn't have and if you remember it's history(doomed to fail by the masses) then you'd probably see why most people have it on a high stand compared to the others.
Maybe it was because I was a kid, but I thought this was gonna be the greatest game ever when I first heard of it. And lo and behold, it was for me at the time.
I mean, I do get nostalgia from the game and whatnot, but I really think that's about it as far as "charm" goes. Sad thing is that people can go on and on about stuff that they like and dislike about the other games, but if someone tries to ask why the like for KH1 despite it's flaws, the only answer people seem to give is "it has charm." To be honest, I really think that all has to do with age. Heck, I feel nostalgic from KH2. Shoot, even BBS and that was just a couple years ago.
Maybe it's because I only officially turned into an adult this year and I could say that the past 10 years, these games have pretty much represented a part of how I grew up. So really, in my eyes, ALL the KH games that have come out have "charm" or "nostalgia" to them. I really don't think any KH game has anymore "charm" than the other. It really depends on personal preference.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I respect your opinion, and I agree with you in most ways. If the future Games got a new and better system ( like chain of memories) then people would still be interested in KINGDOM HEARTS for the gameplay, and not just the plot. The series is getting more confusing, because in KH3D, its suddenly about time travel, and suddenly there's a whole new set of creatures.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I respect your opinion, and I agree with you in most ways. If the future Games got a new and better system ( like chain of memories) then people would still be interested in KINGDOM HEARTS for the gameplay, and not just the plot. The series is getting more confusing, because in KH3D, its suddenly about time travel, and suddenly there's a whole new set of creatures.
Which might be what dooms the series the whole got to introduce a new enemy every 2 games. Especially without officially making closure on the previous set.
How many is it now 4 different enemies right, and they someone talking about introducing light enemies yeah these are some of the simpler reasons this series has gotten on some people's nerve at least a fraction.
@ skyfoxx
I've told you it had both charm/magic plus compared to KH2 had platforming(although only a little), sidequests(actually gave a damn about), and worlds weren't linear. People have mentioned how the story involved both disney and FF and ever since it has gotten away from both of them really. BBS only one FF character and character's didn't give a crap about Disney worlds for the most part they were just there for fan service seems like.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I personally love the KH series. I mean, I play more for the plot than the actual game play, but this is one of the best games series I've ever found when it comes to story (In my opinion).
Kingdom Hearts 1 - Okay, I played this the same year it came out. I was 10. It didn't seem childish to me then, it was a deep story full of mystery and intrigue that made me want more. I loved it. I loved Sora and Riku, and I wanted to be just like Kairi (keep in mind, I was TEN. Now at 20, I realize how silly this sounds)
Kingdom Hearts COM - Again? I loved the mystery. Who was the people in the black coats? Why was Riku fighting Sora at every turn when he seemed to become good in the end of KH1? Also, I loved the fact that it was on the Game Boy, because we were making a lot of car trips at the time. (I totally love RE:COM too. I know it's the same story, but it's freaking awesome, and since my original COM was stolen, well... yeah)
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Okay, I was a little older, and some of the aspects of the story seemed a little cheesy to me, but I felt like Sora grew up with me. I loved the story, I loved Roxas (not just because of his voice actor; it's just, other than Riku, he seemed the most... human to me. A nice counter part to Sora's goody-goodness.) I even liked the reaction commands. They added a fun element that made me want to prolong finishing off bosses, just to see if any other commands would pop up. And don't even get me started on Drive forms. I loved Wisdom.
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep - Honestly? Yes, there was a lack of FF characters. I think this is because it wasn't a MAIN game. It was the Prologue. You learned more about the Keyblades, Kingdom Hearts, and Xehanort himself. I enjoyed the characters, and while Ventus looking EXACTLY like Roxas threw me for a loop, I liked how they explained it. Yes, Aqua's story was lacking (that upset me, seeing as she's the FIRST female protagonist, but the creators are only human), but Terra's was interesting and darker, while Ven's was adorable (for the most part).
Kingdom Hearts 3588/2 Days - Was this game a little unnecessary and repetitive? Sure. But before it came out, lots of fans were calling for what happened in between games 1 and 2 with Roxas and the Organization. As cynical as this sounds, they're a game company. Money is why they're in this business. Nothing else. Why not make a game that seems like it'll sell? And in my opinion, while Xion was an unnecessary character, I don't think she was a Mary Sue. And... maybe she was necessary to show that Nobodies DO have emotions (given that Roxas cries when she dies)
Kingdom Hearts RE:Coded - Yes. Totally unnecessary. The worst game. I got tired of visiting KH1 worlds at this point. The whole "Datascape" thing was interesting, but not to what the other games did. BUT... through a long, annoying, and winding process, it ties the previous 5 games together for its sequel (which could have been done in a few cut scenes, but again. Another game means more buyers, which means more money). I liked the music???
(SPOILERS)
Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance - The story gets wilder in this game, and there is a lack of FF characters, but it was still REALLY cool. In fact, the opening cut scene, the ending, every aspect of the game makes me REALLY want the next one! Could it have been done on a normal DS? Yes. I never turned on my 3D. But still. The story itself dragged me in and wouldn't let me go. The fact that SORA is the one who needs saving, the character growth Riku goes through, the fact that he still has doubts and dark points (keeping his "I'm an imperfect human" aspect that I totally adore about him), learning MORE about Kingdom Hearts and the X-Blade and everything... I love it. I love it all. And yes, there are some REALLY cheesy parts in this game (Like I stated above, I'm 20. This is Kingdom Hearts. Disney. Bound to see it), but it was still a lot of fun. As for gameplay? It was a lot different. A lot more places to explore using Flow Motion (mainly in Travers Town), Linking with the Dream Spirits (though this is more for Riku than Sora), everything about this game made me love it.
So yeah, I'm still a HUGE fan of the KH series. I'm looking forward to KH3 and Kingdom Hearts PC (I know it'll probably have nothing to do with the main series, but it'll be something to play until KH3 comes out). It'll be awesome.
As I said, this is all MY opinion. I don't care if you have yours, and I'll respect yours, so long as you respect mine.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
[INDENT]I might get killed for reviving an old discussion, but whatever.
What mode did you play BBS in? Because I played it in Critical and found it much harder than KH1. If you didn't play a game in it's hardest mode than you're opinion on its difficulty is invalid. If you did play it on Critical, than I'll shut up.
[/INDENT]
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
[INDENT]I might get killed for reviving an old discussion, but whatever.
What mode did you play BBS in? Because I played it in Critical and found it much harder than KH1. If you didn't play a game in it's hardest mode than you're opinion on its difficulty is invalid. If you did play it on Critical, than I'll shut up.
[/INDENT]
I know this question is aimed at Tayroar but, meh. For what it's worth, I played BbS on Critical several times and found it easier than KH1 on Standard. Because of how the mechanics in BbS are set up, by the time the characters reach their thirties/forties they're already powerful enough to finish the game on those levels where in KH1, you probably can beat the game that low but it's not recommended (I think it's recommended that Sora at least be in his seventies before you reach the end). Then for better or worse there's the commands. In KH1 you didn't have the options or ease of all the magic and commands that BbS gave you and some of them are really over powered. Of course you don't have to use the more powerful commands but weaker commands are still pretty sufficient.
I mean, KH1 really made you work and wait for your magic for instance. You couldn't get Firaga until the final world and Blizzaga until you beat the Hades Cup, while in BbS you can get Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundara, Curaga, Magnega, and Aeroga by the end of the first world if you play board games enough.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
[INDENT]I might get killed for reviving an old discussion, but whatever.
What mode did you play BBS in? Because I played it in Critical and found it much harder than KH1. If you didn't play a game in it's hardest mode than you're opinion on its difficulty is invalid. If you did play it on Critical, than I'll shut up.
[/INDENT]
Sorry for the late reply here!
I actually played it on whatever the normal difficulty is, but if you're saying that I need to play it on the hardest difficulty to have a difficult experience, then that's pretty self-explanatory. Every game is difficult if you play it on the most difficult setting: that's the point of the setting. But a normal difficulty should still provide some challenge.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Call me childish but what I really want is a KH2 experience.
KH2 was the 1st game in the series that I played. I was 10 when I played it and the reason I played it was because of the Disney worlds. Back when I was 10 the idea of teaming up with Jack Sparrow, playing through the movie Mulan, summoning Stitch and playing as lion was so appealing to me and the 10 year old me ate it up. Now that I'm 17 I can admit the game is very flawed. Worlds are pretty small, the gameplay is pretty simple with very few challenging bosses and organization 13 was not implemented very well into the story. But I still loved the game as a kid and feel the game gets to much harshness from fans.
To me KH1 is a great game. After playing KH2 first I was suprised with how challenging KH1 was. The story was great, there were come very challenging bosses and the worlds while some of them not designed all that great(Agrabah, Wonderland) most had pretty good design(Atlantica, Halloweentown, Hollow Bastion and were not as linear as the ones in KH2.
While I liked BBS, it had some major problems for me. For one like others have said, the worlds were very dull and lifeless and this is where the lack of NPCs really become a problem in this series. Then to me Terra Ven and Aqua were very dull characters. Ven was just way too Mr Nice guy and Terra and Aqua's voice actors sounded like they were bored throughout most of the game. There were just so many of their deliveries where I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
I played DDD last month and I really enjoyed. The gameplay was fun, loved flow motion, and the level design was great despite a serious lack of of NPCs( Notre Dame WTF). A major problem here was that the disney worlds felt like filler and that the story begins to start filling a bit stretched out.
The series is moving in the right direction now with the games moving to the PS3. Very excited to play 1.5 FM and even more excited to play 2.5 next year. Once KH3 comes out all will be forgiven. The series just needs to get back to the basics with a good hybrid of elements from KH1, 2 and 3D. Good gameplay, the old trio back, a good lineup of disney worlds, and a deconvoluted story.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
| Good gameplay, the old trio back, a good lineup of disney worlds, and a deconvoluted story. |
The deconvoluted story probably isn't going to happen, at least not with KH3 since it has to tie up at least some loose ends from the previous games. As for the new series, I don't think that will be much less complicated; perhaps initially, but i believe it's just in nomura's and the writing staff's nature to write like that, so i wouldn't get my hopes up.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Yeah, a deconvoluted story is not likely to happen before KH4, but Id still like to have something of a KH2 experience.
But Id be fine if they kept the command system from the last three games, if the more powerful commands are unlocked instead of just melded.
Also summons should make a return, and I loved the reaction commands and limits.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I don't despise the series, but I just don't see that much of Disney characters in there. What I mean by that is that we only see like Chip and Dale, Minnie, Mickey, Pete, Donald Duck, Goofy, Donald's nephews, Scrooge McDuck and Daisy Duck. I mean sure there is Timeless River, but there could have been a lot done with that world other than trying to stop Pete from stealing the Cornerstone of Light. I mean, it would be interesting to see Pistol Pete, Pete's daughter from Goof Troop siding with her father and being more of a hindrance to Sora and the gang as her father fails miserably. Also, maybe have more antagonists from the Mickey Mouse shorts for Sora or King Mickey to fight off like Mortimore Mouse trying to steal Minnie away or something like that. And, I am not a fan of ReCom, because the gameplay with the cards is confusing as I always run out of them and Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days was my first game. I do agree with Laxatory's point about Ventus looking like Roxas is really insipid. For the first part I thought Roxas would look like a mixture between Ventus and Sora and not a clone. Sorry if my grammar is grouped together, my keyboard doesn't want to space it out.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Sorry for the late reply here!
I actually played it on whatever the normal difficulty is, but if you're saying that I need to play it on the hardest difficulty to have a difficult experience, then that's pretty self-explanatory. Every game is difficult if you play it on the most difficult setting: that's the point of the setting. But a normal difficulty should still provide some challenge.
From my experience, recently, most game's 'normal' setting is pretty much a coasting mode. All you have to do is try a little, and you'll win, rarely will you be on edge or forced to step your game up.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
From my experience, recently, most game's 'normal' setting is pretty much a coasting mode. All you have to do is try a little, and you'll win, rarely will you be on edge or forced to step your game up.
I've played Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days, Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Kingdom Hearts 2 and Kingdom Hearts 3DS on their hardest levels, Proud and Critical. Man, what a challenge that was. I am still trying to beat Kingdom Hearts Re:Com on Proud, but I think I should try Normal first. The card system is too difficult, because I always get my cards knocked off by the other's cards and Repliku is too aggressive with his attacks.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I've long since stopped choosing Normal in any Kingdom Hearts game. Proud tends to be like "easy" and Critical brings the challenge.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I've long since stopped choosing Normal in any Kingdom Hearts game. Proud tends to be like "easy" and Critical brings the challenge.
Yeah, that's true. I've recently played on Proud and Critical when it came to Dream Drop Distance. Boy, was it a challenge. I think I am going to give Kingdom Hearts Re: Com another chance once it comes out. I mean, Repliku kicked my butt the last time and that pretty much made me give up on the game. I know I sound like a prissy, but I didn't like the controls on Com. Of course, Kingdom Hearts could do better with their plot, their characters, and their game controls to be honest, but that's my opinion. At the end of the day, I can't tell anybody what to like and dislike.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Yeah, that's true. I've recently played on Proud and Critical when it came to Dream Drop Distance. Boy, was it a challenge. I think I am going to give Kingdom Hearts Re: Com another chance once it comes out. I mean, Repliku kicked my butt the last time and that pretty much made me give up on the game. I know I sound like a prissy, but I didn't like the controls on Com. Of course, Kingdom Hearts could do better with their plot, their characters, and their game controls to be honest, but that's my opinion. At the end of the day, I can't tell anybody what to like and dislike.
I didn't think KH3D would be so hard on Critical but I had such a hard time fighting against just Ursula! And continued to struggle the whole way.
It's fine to dislike the CoM controls. I don't necessarily find them to be the best thing in the series compared to the command deck system, but I still enjoy it because I like the added strategy and I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome with it considering how I threw it into a corner and didn't touch it for almost a year before playing it again all because I couldn't beat Marluxia.
If you're buying the KH 1.5, I think you'll find Re:CoM to be more inspiring to play if only because of the trophies being a big incentive.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I didn't think KH3D would be so hard on Critical but I had such a hard time fighting against just Ursula! And continued to struggle the whole way.
It's fine to dislike the CoM controls. I don't necessarily find them to be the best thing in the series compared to the command deck system, but I still enjoy it because I like the added strategy and I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome with it considering how I threw it into a corner and didn't touch it for almost a year before playing it again all because I couldn't beat Marluxia.
If you're buying the KH 1.5, I think you'll find Re:CoM to be more inspiring to play if only because of the trophies being a big incentive.
Thanks, I'll probably give that a try. I am probably going to get a used PS3 in order to play it though. Plus, there comes up another problem and that's there are too many consoles for the series. I mean, it would be a lot less expensive having a game series for one platform than multiple, right? There is a possibility of Kingdom Hearts 2.5 or Kingdom Hearts 3 being on the PS4. And, if the PS4 just has PS4 games than you couldn't play Kingdom Hearts 1.5 on the PS3. I mean, I already have a 3DS and I am not in the position right now to buy Kingdom Hearts 1.5. Do you think multiple platforms are good?
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
Thanks, I'll probably give that a try. I am probably going to get a used PS3 in order to play it though. Plus, there comes up another problem and that's there are too many consoles for the series. I mean, it would be a lot less expensive having a game series for one platform than multiple, right? There is a possibility of Kingdom Hearts 2.5 or Kingdom Hearts 3 being on the PS4. And, if the PS4 just has PS4 games than you couldn't play Kingdom Hearts 1.5 on the PS3. I mean, I already have a 3DS and I am not in the position right now to buy Kingdom Hearts 1.5. Do you think multiple platforms are good?
1. they're rectifying the whole "spread out on consoles" thing.
2. KH 2.5 is assured a PS3 release.
3. The PS4 might have the capability to play PS1, 2 and 3 games.
4. Asking if multiple platforms are good is a discussion for another thread.
Re: How I Divorced Kingdom Hearts (Please Don't Blame Goofy)
I didn't think KH3D would be so hard on Critical but I had such a hard time fighting against just Ursula! And continued to struggle the whole way.
It's fine to dislike the CoM controls. I don't necessarily find them to be the best thing in the series compared to the command deck system, but I still enjoy it because I like the added strategy and I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome with it considering how I threw it into a corner and didn't touch it for almost a year before playing it again all because I couldn't beat Marluxia.
If you're buying the KH 1.5, I think you'll find Re:CoM to be more inspiring to play if only because of the trophies being a big incentive.
That's if they changed the card system. If not, then it's still possibly still as hard.
Spectrum
November 29, 2012 @ 01:53 amOffline