Reposting:

Love that box art, kind of annoyed that they're just putting old cutscenes in this game because what kingdom hearts REALLY needs in the next arc is even MORE recap of the previous arc

This makes me think that the "video" icons on the world map footage will just be unlocking cutscenes you've already seen and so the plot element of this game will be quite small (and thus probably just more remind-style miscellaneous "explanatory" scenes and a bit of teasing). Hopefully not the case but ):

Oh look, it was a Nintendo Direct that got news & not State of Play/TGS :)

They're probably just the Memory Dive stages minus the gameplay, a harmless bonus feature they could throw in.

I think it's mostly for switch players who are gonna be new to the series.

If you were new to the series why would you start with a rhythm game, even if that rhythm game wasn't the 11th entry in a continuous story?

If you just want to watch the cutscenes of the other games, the Nintendo Switch also has a youtube feature...

Some additional info: apparently the official JP KH Twitter says there’s another trailer coming within the next several days. Can anyone translate this to confirm?

Also there’s a new rendition of Dearly Beloved on the JP website! It’s jazzy. https://www.jp.square-enix.com/kingdom/kh_mom/

That boxart of Kairi on her throne is so beautiful! I may want that as my next avatar. Now that they have shown my playable RAX there is no excuse for me to not play this game. I wonder if you can play whoever you want whenever you want when you unlock a character. They showed Sora, Donald, and Goofy in a segment that would better fit TAV. If so I am making a crazy trio team after I've had my RAX fill!

Now Kairi is on the throne in Sora's place. A small change but an effective one.

You know, I was like "Be ready to be surprised, after all the last trailers always come when you are off guard." Ironically that meant that I was on guard all of the time. Until now. Is it my fault that the info came this late?

I can think of a few better ways to accomplish that....



Well it is rumored there'll be a bigger Nintendo Direct on the 28th. & Gamescom's this weekend.

"Good evening, the release date has been announced suddenly so taking this opportunity, this is the Key Art of 'Melody of Memory'. The final trailer is scheduled to be released within the next couple of days, wait a bit more@Nomura"

It's likely going to be released in the gamescom

Seeing "Let it Go" being a song here because it's in the game is no surprise. But it's too bad other iconic Disney songs won't be on the list. Imagine if Frollo's "Hellfire" was a song you could play to? I mean he was in DDD right?

This dropped on my birthday today, and I couldn't be happier. Clearly Nomura knows of my love for Kairi and SoKai;) I couldn't be more excited.

And I wasn't expecting Roxas, Axel, and Xion being playable, but after not getting a Remake of Days, I'll happily take it.

Well there're the instrumentals of songs used as world themes, Fantasia will likely be well covered.

That's right! "A Night on Bald Mountain" is in Kingdom Hearts! Bring it on!

Can’t wait to play it. That box art is lovely.

God, you people never stop whining. Take the complaints to the Kingdom Hearts social media accounts, not here.

A music rhythm mini-game against Chernabog would actually be an upgrade over his DDD "fight".

That chair?

That's the protagonist chair.

Kairi's the protag now, boiiiiiii

She's gonna beat up everybody and save the universe with the power of music.

That would be so cool! I hope they go all out and have him summoning demons if he is a rhythm boss! I'm crossing my fingers!

As hyped as I am for this game I find it kind of funny how the first "Kairi" game we get we've seen playable...

Sora, Riku, Donald, Goofy, Roxas, Axel, and Xion....but not Kairi.

Kairi has assumed the throne!

Though her feet are cut off on the PS4 version lol

The art work is stunning and I’m in love with it. Can’t wait for November 13th! I’m definitely not watching this trailer because I’m much too afraid of spoilers lol

Don't remind me, trying not to be negative which is very much not me but Imma tryin ?

& Herc & Aladdin & other presumed guest party members.



Superior Switch version confirmed!

Hey look we get a playable Xion so to me this is net positive update, I'd like to have playable Kairi but I will take my playable Xion since Days is the only other game I can get that fix. Also it's not just playable Xion but RAX working a trio in general which has happened a grand total one one mission in Days and 1 battle in KH3. Also we got FF Theatrhythm style characters for RAX now which I look forward to being ripped for creative uses, AND a killer artwork.

Artwork that might be one of my favorite pieces Nomura has ever done because there is so much going on there. Namely what sticks out to me is how the 3 photos of Sora are all memories directly from Kairi's view. KH1 Sora is when they were separated right at the end of KH1 as they lost grip on one another. KH2 Sora is him finally returning home and smiling from the shallows. KH3 Sora is right before Sora vanished with a smile, you can tell it's the latter because Sora is situated on the right side of the tree.

So yeah net positive, focusing on all the good rather than the lack of playable Kairi.

We probably haven'r seen playable Kairi because it's gonna be the endgame.

They'll save Kairi for last when playable. Just like the ReMind trailers.

IM WEEPING KAIRI SO SWEET

Releasing on November 11th for Japan. *sigh* still waiting fo the time you will do a simultaneous release Square...

Punishment for the date leaking in Europe lolol /jk

Two day different isn’t so bad

Oh my god.

Love it. So upbeat.

Nice. While listening to this I immediately thought it had a jazz like feel to it in certain sections. Made me think Louis, from Princess and the Frog, was playing it.

For some reason the official site isn't loading for me. Is there a problem?

Nice. While listening to this I immediately thought it had a jazz like feel to it in certain sections. Made me think Louis, from Princess and the Frog, was playing it.

Yeah basically we've got a swing version here.

The site is glitchy. Some people can load it and some can’t.

I love that all thirteen Guardians of Light are on the cover as they were in KH3's box art. Maybe that will be a recurring theme for the next couple of games

As others have said I love the boxart. It seems however this is a full priced game so I'll buy it in a sale if I bother at all. I can't justify paying full price for this.

People have an issue with that too so now what. It strikes me as hilarious how hard you're reaching here but as you clearly want to be righteously angry at whining people I'll happily oblige. I am thoroughly disappointed that this budget title has been given such a high price. I don't think something that was developed in two years max and looks the way it does with a barely revamped gameplay system is so worthy of the same price as a game that underwent seven years of dev time. And that's not even bringing up how problematic it seems shoving kairi's story into a rhythm game. I've no doubt I'd enjoy the gameplay but it already weirds me out seeing KH1 Sora playing through all this, especially for events he wasn't around for. We went from "it looks fine for a quick budget title" to "don't complain! Why are you complaining? You're exaggerating. Stop doing that!"

No one was even complaining in the first place too.

How dare Shimomura taunt me with a good time.

Heads up:

Pre-orders are available starting today from the SQUARE ENIX store the Nintendo eShop, Microsoft Store, and other select retailers. PlayStation Store pre-orders will start soon.

Those who purchase for the PlayStation 4 system from the PlayStation store for a limited time by December 31st, 2020 will also receive the KINGDOM HEARTS Melody of Memory theme

Observations:

• Kairi is asleep while she sits the throne and projections of the memories are behind her, cementing more the fact that sleep will be a recurring theme from now on. That said, I think Kairi being in the Final World confronting possibly a hooded Apprentice Xehanort is her digging into her deepest memories, but it's locked away by some sort of emotion, maybe fear, and that fear is manifested by Apprentice Xehanort: reason as to why he's wearing a hood: she doesn't know that Apprentice Xehanort is the source of her fears. Maybe it's also why she's so powerless against Xemnas: he reminds her of Apprentice Xehanort.

• Kairi not being shown playable could mean that she isn't playable at all or her segment is another scenario with KH3 gameplay.

The box art looks so good

Also thank God they showed the other playable characters so we can put those tired conversations about playing as Sora to bed already

I'm waiting for a Collector's Edition announcement before I pre-order.
Double-dipping for JP and ENG either way. Might do digital for JP since it's out sooner, as much as I prefer physical...

[URL unfurl="true"]https://images.khinsider.com/Kingdom%20Hearts%20Melody%20of%20Memory/Videos/Dearly%20Beloved.mp3[/URL]

There's a not so elephant in the room tho: playable Kairi?

Here's a short, unlisted, no-audio video of Sora flying around scenes from DDD, 0.2, and KH3.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://images.khinsider.com/Kingdom%20Hearts%20Melody%20of%20Memory/Videos/Sizzle.mp4[/URL]

The opening video for this game is gonna be playable, ain't it?

All worlds from all KH games seems to be in the game, whoever thought this isn't going to be 60$ were fooling themselves.

If it has Deep Jungle then the 60$ is warranted lol. I wonder if it'll have all Heartless and Nobody enemies in the game too. I wonder if it'll have Organization XIII bosses...the ones that aren't playable.

On the JP website, there's a ticker showing some of the songs in the game.

Among them, Destati from Orchestra World Tour is included, so non-game tracks are confirmed.

Non-game tracks is kind of confirmed by the "OTHER" category seen in the direct. So orchestra and new tracks I guess.

Crossposting HQ keyart here:



This header is even better resolution and lacks the logo but it cuts off at Kairi's knees lol

So the orchestra version of face my fears is actually a possibility.

also getting hopeful for songs like fate of the unkown.

Nothing funny about it. Kairi doesnt matter and she never has.

MoM's rendition of Dearly Beloved is pretty catchy. It has a upbeat quality to it that wasnt present in the other versions

Gonna sound like a broken record since others have said it again and again, but the cover art is SO GOOD. Honestly I'd pay good money for a huge print of that Donald & Goofy panel. It's so adorable, I'd smile everytime I saw it if I could hang it up in my room somewhere... Also the different Soras all being from Kairi's perspective is a pretty neat detail. (Though the KH1 one seems to be from the ending and I don't quite remember him making such a creepy smile given the situation, but whatever!)

The new version of Dearly Beloved is really fun, and that box art is great. I hope they release all the artworks in the paintings separately so we can get a better look at them.

Nice to see more gameplay from this, I'm so glad we've got additional characters confirmed. Hopefully this means Kairi is going to be playable too for at least the end of the game. Also, it seems to me like this is going to be a game where you can just watch the important cutscenes without missing too much, so that should be good for people who don't like rhythm games.

Haven't said this yet but I am so glad Axel's using his chakrams, and his group is fighting Heartless straight out of Days like the Minute Bombs and Guardians. This might be the Days remake I never knew I wanted until now. November isn't that far away but it feels like years now. I wanna play this so bad! I sure hope they put in the Zip Slasher, for it's design alone.

Oh yeah, so glad they're bringing back Days elements for the RAX stuff. That game really doesn't get enough love.

At first I wanted to buy it for the PS4 but I think I’m gonna but it for the Switch just to support the sales for the Switch.

Really happy that the game finally got a release date and that we saw the other playable characters. But the strong possibliity of Kairi not being playable despite being the focus of the game has me worried. Come on Square. Redeem the princess. This is your chance.

Slow it down, there is no chance Kairi isn't playable in this game. Like, what mental gymnastics would they pull to keep her from being playable? The Sora we see is (yet another) Data Sora who is going through digitized dreams of what Kairi remembers of Sora and his stories he told her on the Islands, which explains why Kairi herself hasnt been seen playing any music? That's way too farfetched even for KH. Relax. They aren't showing Kairi off because her appearancd ingame is too spoilery, and KH1 Sora is the most marketable.

It was a detail I picked up on when watching the trailer the second time. As someone who's played Days a lot I was so shocked to see Heartless from their game in the trailer. I hope there is more.

Dustflier return please

Ruler of the Skies...said no one.

I kinda don't get how for some reason, people act like the game shouldn't be full price not cuz of the content but just the genre.

Only digital copy on Xbox?

Can't wait to play 8 way vs on Swim This Way. Peak nightmare fuel right there. (y)

If this is in reference to me you could not be more mistaken. I feel like I've said many times that I enjoyed theatrythm and rhythm games in general. It's how that the majority of MoM is reused, hell even PS2 MIDI tracks instead of remixes and they have the front to make it full price. Theatrythm was less and had a lot more tracks, plus that game actually had to build a gameplay system from scratch, the same system MoM is using now.

I mean, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy and Curtain Call were fully priced 3DS games. It's to be expected when the KH version is in full 3D. Even though I sorta understand people's expectations.

[USER=45663]@Zephyr[/USER] is the best <3

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I kinda feel like the price is justified due to the amount of songs and the like, more justified than the Persona 3 and 5 dancing games which were full price yet had less content each.

Judging by the trophies there is going to be a lot to do in this game, like a full fledged KH game in terms of content. I can understand being upset about the price, heck I don't like the price either, I guess it'll come down to when I play the game to see if the price was warranted. I wonder if this game will have DLC?

Newsflash if you don‘t agree with the price wait for it to go on sale.

I was wondering the same thing. TFFCC has DLC when it came out on the 3DS. I kind of anticipate it if they feel there is an audience or demand for it. They certainly are missing a bunch of songs that people will be begging to play.

Love the box art.

Don't know if this have been mentioned before, but Sora pictures from the perspective of Kairi all correspond to the endings of KH1, KH2 and KH3 and it breaks my heart a little.

The trailer says a new chapter so... Playable Kairi is guaranteed, will it be rhythm or KH3 playability is still unknown.

DLC is almost a guarantee
140 is quite a beefy tracklist but I WANT MORE

I hope so.
i doubt data fights music from ReMind will be on base game, so DLC can add stuff like that.

They would all have to be cutscene style levels, I doubt that'll happen.

All of Org XIII have pre-KH3 models. They'd just need to quickly throw together yellow eyed variants of Dark Riku, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene.

This may be a low bar, but with everything going on, I’m just really happy we’re getting an original KH game with no delays. Can’t wait for November!

Do you guys think we'll see Yozora in the OG engine? How whacky would that be xD

They'd probably just have the player gliding over an FMV of the Yozora scenes/battle from Re:Mind. Same with Toy Box, Arendelle, etc.

As much as I'd love to see low-res versions of KH3 characters like Rapunzel, Eugene, Woody and Buzz, they'll probably just take the easy way out and not include them in gameplay at all.

I'd be surprised if the Master Of Masters turns out to be either Riku,Kairi or Sora's mother because look at the intials M.O.M.

You know Re:Mind has really improved Kairi alot from being useless damsel in distress to an action heroine it took years but Square finally listened.

No it hasn't, she spent the entirety of re:mind being the literal plot device, and only fought once against VooDoo PowerUp Final ArmoredNort, then she INSTANTLY went to sleep for a year

A few minutes in combat does not make up for years of nothing.

Good point but still i'd rather have her do at least something useful instead of just being a damsel in distress the whole time.

True, but it isn't indicative of anything in itself. It was a great setpiece, but SE said almost in the same brush that she deserves nothing more than to FALL ASLEEP, and as we see with MoM for now, it seems Sora gameplay is more important than even giving Kairi some scraps as a rhythm MC.

Your right i think i was being a little too idealistic. Kairi to begin with really never was that intersting of a character and i'd never like her before re:mind never liked her after either and M.O.M isn't going to change my mind either i'm more interseted in figuring out who the masters of masters is.

Her going to sleep for a year though has importance. It's not like she was like, "Sora dead? I'm sleep tho." Her reasoning was, "Our hearts are connected, so maybe something deep down might lead me to him, a clue or a string of fate." If TAV are looking in the Realm of Darkness, MDG are looking through every world Sora's been at, and RAX are in Twilight Town searching for information in their own way, Kairi's not just gonna be chilling on the island like what happened Post-KH1. She's gonna feel guilty because of Sora disappearing, and she has a means to fight and protect herself now. There's not really much else Kairi could do, everyone else has it covered. And, Kairi's the only one (other than possibly Ven, but he doesn't seem to remember, so you gotta disregard him anyway) who's been to The Final World before.

Seeing as how Sora ended up in The Final World at the end of ReMind, Kairi ended up being right. He's probably not going to be rescued in MoM, but she's clearly on the right track.

I hope the Data Org remixes are in this game. They are among my favorite tracks of the series.

Oof, there's that word that the KH series loves so much. Kairi getting whisked away from RG/DI was important. Kairi being a poh was important in KH1. Her friendship with Riku was important in CoM (even though it was technically Naminé). Kairi running into the corridor of DARKNESS and getting kidnapped in KH2 was important. Her swatting at two shadows in TWTNW was important. And finally, her going to Merlin's Bootleg Keyblade School in KH3 was mega important.

Do you see where I'm going? Yes, the things she do are IMPORTANT from a story point of view, but they are not at all interesting visually, thematically, or (and especially) compared to what the likes of Aqua, SORA (unfair but still), Riku, Terra, Ventus, and even Mickey do in the series. Being "important" isn't enough anymore. The characters need to be seen onscreen doing things. They need to have hours of gameplay, voicelines, cutscenes, and more dedicated to them. Otherwise, they may as well be NPCs relegated to a single world (oh snap, that is what Kairi actually was in KH1.)

Sora sleeping for a year and kinda just waking up right in the next game: Perfectly fine.

Kairi sleeping for a year and kinda just waking up right in the next game: Literally horrible apparently.

I do agree that it is great they finally listened. It just sucks it took almost 20 years xD I'm just worried that they will see this as progress and will leave her high and dry after MOM because we got the "Kairi" game we asked for.

Square Enix's bad habit of streching themselves too thin with resources,communication errors and hyper focus on mainstream and mobile stuff really bites them in the ass at times literally losing millions of dollars.

Oh Naminé :cry:

Love the trailer and the art box is beautiful, 13 November can't come soon enough.

Number 1 is perfectly fine. Why? Because he literally did stuff for two games straight.

Number 2 is literally horrible. Why? Because she literally did nothing for TWENTY YEARS, got hyped up in DDD only to get glassed in the KH3, and spent majority of what should have been HER SCENARIO [remind] being a plot device (literally pieces of a flower!) and got optional play time for what was effectively Armored Xehanort Phase One but with a cool new background. Oh, and not to mention we still haven't seen or heard about Kairi being playable in MoM, which as I stated earlier is the bare minimum table scraps they could throw toward us Kairi fans.

Context is hugely important for the so called outrage (it's more disappointment than outrage, tbh). It isn't a case of hypocrisy, this time. They just treat Sora and other MCs better than they do Kairi.

I love that the shots of Sora from the box art are all from Kairi's perspective in those scenes... I LOVE the KH3 ending shot OMG!!!

YA'LL BETTER PAY UP

What's it gonna cost me, bucko?

only part of your take I have a problem with. It's a completely different boss, and a far better one than any of the bosses in the base game.

Everything, eh?

This is all I got, chief.
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Is it me or the graphics with the old engine seem a little more polished or cartoonish? Looks like they added a filter that makes it more stylized.

Have you seen how the world that never was looks more like the cgi from deep dive? It's way darker and less blue-greenish

On the subject of Kairi I do think KH3 improved her treatment a bit even if she still can't pass the bechdel test and was still somewhat shafted. We got to see Kairi have a friendship outside Sora and Riku. We got to see Sora and Kairi's relationship advance including them finally having their long awaited world tour together. We got to hear Kairi's actual thoughts and feelings for one on people and not just Sora (namely Namine). Like it was a particularly nice piece of characterization hearing Kairi write a letter to Sora but then explain that letter isn't actually for Sora, it's for her a, a coping mechanism she uses to process her thoughts because Sora is her happy place where she feels most comfortable. We got to play as Kairi for once and fight and defeat MX, the Xehanort saga got to end with Kairi beating Xehanort then joining the group as they all did the final blow together.

She got have like flaws the start of an actual arc. Promising to protect Sora and holding her own against the generic mooks, but freezing up in her first Xehanort fight which is understandable. Easy to forget when Sora first faced a terrifyingly seemingly powerful foe he turned around and tried to run away until he realized there was nowhere to run to, Kairi's reaction was pretty fittingly in the middle of Sora and Riku who were flight vs fight. She still managed to make a come back and one-up her only meaningful contribution, the saving of Sora in KH1, to now have saved Sora and by extension all the guardians as she is the only thing that kept him tethered enabling him to save the others.

She reaffirms that she will keep Sora safe and from that point on she held her own even against Xemnas until she got caught and fridged. However the fridging wasn't just a way to cause Sora pain it set up the entirety of Re:Mind, this game, and basically is the catalyst to the core plot going on. It was a mistake, an actual failure, with serious long term consequences. I wouldn't have done it this way myself but you know this is something everyone but Kairi has had. A tragedy, a mistake, a personal failing that affected everyone including the people closest to them in a negative. Kairi promised she protect Sora and instead Sora had to save her and was erased as a consequence. That had to hurt, to give her such a complex knowing that Sora is gone and no one's life has been able to return to normal and move forward because they all have spent the last year trying to save Sora. Kairi finally gets to join Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Roxas, Axel, Xion, and Namine in being a character with flaws that lead to failure and long lasting problems. Instead of the perfect do nothing pure maiden whose effect on plot and on people has been minimal to non-existent.

Finally as pointed out Kairi didn't just return to the island and wait. She went to RG to try and use herself in their research to find Sora doing all this melody of memory dive stuff, and who knows what else since we know at some point she is going to end up in TFW staring down a cloaked figure. Point is that she IS doing things and not just waiting...even if her and Riku's doing things to find Sora amount to playing video games where they play as Sora. :P

Can and does Kairi deserve a hell of a lot more than this? 100% without any single question yes, but I think it's often downplayed how much better KH3 and onward has been treating her. It's still not anywhere close to good enough but compared to where she was previously? The distance between her treatment in KH1/KH2 vs KH3 is like the distances from north pole to the south pole.

Applauds you, Hirokey. While I prefer KH1 and KH2 Kairi, because she had more personality back then; and Nomura hadn't forgotten to write her in those few years, and actually seemed to see her (in some ways) as more than a means to Sora's pain, I've defended my KH3 girl time and time again.

And what she's doing in KH3 is Leaps and BOUNDS more than she ever got--or could've done--in the past games. I think the fridging thing is just a road block we had to get through--and that we will get through--because Nomura and Japan are obsessed with that trope.

But there's no denying that how Kairi's been treated since Re:Mind and now in Melody of Memory--even KHIII itself some--is much better than she's ever gotten... somewhat sadly. I think Nomura and the team are finally listening to us about her, as NO one was happy with her murder in KH3. I definitely think Re:Mind with Kairi was a response to our rage. And that we might have gotten DDD 2.0 (though we still might get that), with nothing for Kairi at ALL, if the team hadn't (thankfully) seen the Internet's want for good things for Kairi.

I still want way more of course. But the point is this is all a step in the right DIRECTION. Finally.

And Kairi's track record of actually becoming more avtive with each new game she's in, is continuing.

There's also a part of me thinking Kairi MIGHT, in this saga, be what Riku was in the last one. But we'll see. They might not do that, since it would piss a lot of people off and Nomura loves Riku. But maybe we'll at least get way more Kairi. And maybe a lot of this saga will be Riku and Kairi (hopefully working together) trying to find Sora. Who knows?

Also, Hirokey... I'm glad that you're happy she got to be a part of the team that blasted Xehanort and defeated him with them. I am, too. In KH1, Kairi wanted to go with Sora to find Riku, but didn't when he told her not to. But she still showed up at the End of the World right when the fight was over. In KH2, she went into the final battle--and some of the other fights--but was knocked out of it. In KH3, she fights in most the fights and almost made it to the Final Battle and I was sad she didn't. But Re:Mind made it so even though she was taken out of the fight for a minute, she finally got to have the final say with the other heroes and it's nice.

Also, y'all talking about her in Re:Mind are forgetting how she ripped Xemnas a new one.

I hope they do trailers like this moving forward. It gave away nothing, except gameplay aspects, and teased the story immensely without spoiling anything.

They don't need any other trailers after this one, I'm good. I just don't want to see "Final Battle - Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory" popping up on YouTube in October.

With Kairi front and center this gives me hope they'll make the Sora, Riku, Kairi fight that never happened in the Dark Seeker Saga. This will be better because now when Kairi stands with them it'll feel earned rather then it just being a requirement. So I'm hoping from here on out Kairi truly is treated like the tritagonist of Kingdom Hearts.

Same.

They deserve a fight together...I'm still miffed over how they didn't get a single brawl against Xehanort together.

Same, I had to do a Data Greeting in ReMind of just that for my own satisfaction lol.

And yeah Kairi needs her spunk back.

They're probably saving SRK fighting together the inevitable MoM

Local co-op eh?
*Flashes back to the days of 358 with a few friends in mission mode*
About time they try doing this again, how long has it been? 12 years?

Should've happened in KH2 if anything.

Honestly I doubt Kairi would have stood a chance against Xemnas in KH2. Even with her latent PoH powers.

She's not real, she can fight however Nomura wants her to lol

Thing is, KH2 was a game with a bunch of not-quite-party members, Herc, Mickey, Axel, assorted FF guys. If it didn't make sense to have Kairi as a party member, this would've been a viable Option B.

But ya know, a much better way to make her strong enough is not wait until the very end of the damn game to give her a keyblade.

I really hope all these fan aspirations that Kairi's about to takeover the series are as unlikely as the FF characters coming back. I'm barely in this for the original characters anymore as it is. Forcing me to play as random new characters I don't care about in the side game streak of the Dark Seeker saga was bad enough. Making me play as Kairi in multiple games would probably be what it takes for me to finally dump this series.

Can I please ask why? Keep in mind the following facts:

•KH has been boiled down to OC donutsteel melodrama since CoM.
• FF was practically erased from the series since 2.
•We've swapped from Sora to other characters in a major way in R/R, Days, BBS, DDD, and 0.2.
•Sora himself (and the SDG OG trio) had been mindbroken since DDD, and was falsely given the Keyblade Jesus title in Blank Points.

So why would a playable-at-length Kairi be what does you in? And why *now*?

If you're in Kingdom Hearts for Disney, I'm not sure what to tell you.

E: Like, I've wanted to play as Kairi, one of the (nominally) main characters of the series, since I was a little kid playing Kingdom Hearts 1. Giving her her own story isn't a radical crazy change, it's the obvious thing to do since the very beginning. If you just want Sora doing Disney filler every game, um, you can wait for the next "numbered" game I guess, because if "playing as kairi" is too much for you, anything else at all will be too.

I mean, if you're already barely in it for the characters, I'm not sure why switching among them should make much difference to you.

I'm optimistic about her development. I mean Riku got a lot of his development in a "card game" and Days, a game where the pacing is monotonous (but for a reason) and most of it was the RAX show (which is what's supposed to happen). KH2, he was hiding most of the time until the end because of grief. It's really only because of DDD that Riku finally came into his own, and that's why I like to see DDD as a "Riku game" as much as it can be argued that BBS is an "Aqua game".

Kingdom Hearts isn't a series where it's predictable in where Nomura decides to carry out character arcs. It can happen wherever he sees fit, and honestly, Melody of Memory might be it hopefully. While combat would be fun, it's not the only way to tell a story. In many ways, her role is the most important. If they're kicking off the next saga with a Kairi game? I think it's safe to say that she's going to be a much bigger presence this time. Maybe even the protagonist.

I guess I should re-phrase that I don't get much out of the majority of the cast outside of 3-5 characters. And then Kairi's my least favorite of the roster. I don't really want to play as any of the others, much less her. I could handle one game of her, but having the blandest character suddenly taking over the series? No thanks. But maybe it'll be a good thing, because KH transforming into FFXV leftovers already irked me. And then here comes PIXAR, Star Wars, Marvel, etc. What a trainwreck.

It's possible that all of these things made Tartarus lose interest, and MoM just might be the straw that broke the camel's back. I guess since KH3 was the end of the Dark Seeker saga, most people find it easy to hop off here.

It's clear that the series isn't what it used to be, but I also never felt like KH1 -> CoM -> KH2 was its peak, either. In my opinion, UX has the best writing to date, and this is post-KH3 material. ReMind's scenario was a retread, but it had a lot of elements that fans loved, and in a lot of ways felt like a love letter to KH2. Dark Road so far might be in the beginning stages, but the lore we're getting, as well as how Xehanort and Eraqus interact with their classmates is fascinating. People give DDD a lot of shit, but as time goes on, it's clear that DDD is going to be a game that makes way more sense as the story unfolds. And KH3 is my favorite title to date, other people hate it, so to each their own.

No matter how you slice it though, some things just aren't for everybody, and it's better they come to grips with it now instead of torturing themselves with something they don't even like anymore. I don't agree with anyone saying the series is going downhill, BUT I understand and respect their opinion.

I actually did like 3D and 3 though. They were mostly a return to form for me. I mean, I'd long given up that they would ever reach the heights of 1 and CoM again, but at least it was at / above KH2-level. Them getting lost in the weeds again with several Kairi games would just be anticlimatic after that.

Kairi getting a more relevant role should have happened far sooner, the damage control they did for her in Re:Mind was too little too late. Her taking over the series is really beyond the realm of realistic when we have Sora AND Riku in the drivers seat. Realistically, Kairi will at least get more screentime going forward, but the lack of screentime up to this point can't be undone so fast.

I guess I understand where y'all are coming from. A mix of series burn-out, bad form from the OC melodrama, and so on. It's just, Nomura and friends won't kill her off (which is my preferred treatment for her and her other clones) so I'd be grateful if they featured Kairi as a powerhouse and reasonably (as far as KH can go with reason, I guess) got her at least a few rungs below Aqua, let alone the current Masters we have in the lineup.

If the Kairi bits feature her as some demure freaking damsel again, or worse if her particular involvement portion of the MoM story is insignificant in scope, action, and length...yeah I'd be pissed. But we still have to wait and see what actualyl happens.

"Realistically", Kairi getting a more relevant role could've happened in DDD if it weren't just a Mark of Mastery exam.

Hearing this after the amount of times I've heard people say "How can you be a fan of Kingdom Hearts if you don't like the Disney?" does bring a smile to my face.

I'm so hyped for this, PLEASE I need Dark Impetus in this game, I CAN'T WAITTTT!

Wait, there are people who don't think that DDD is Riku's game or that BBS isn't Aqua's? I'm legitimately asking this.

Yeeeaaahhh, I'm gonna be the reverse position. We've played as Sora a billion times and will unquestionably return to him in the future, and I also don't relish the idea of even more Riku focus after playing through his same character arc for years and years. A bit of fresh blood is what I need to keep my interest at this time, and Kairi would provide that while also being someone familiar, so it's the best of worlds.

Well, that's fine if you think playing as cardboard will be more fun than SDG. Everyone has a right to their own opinions--I'm just praying it doesn't actually come to fruition myself. As much as we all b*tch about Nomura's writing, sometimes I think this series would be so much worse if the fans had complete control.

Cardboard at least pretends to be deep, where SDG fumble throughout Disney worlds and never concretely learn anything. Actually, if you think about it, DG (and Mickey) have a metaphorical gun to Sora's head and tell him to keep smiling so as to power their Gummi Ship. Oof. Sora tried to be pseudo-deep in KH1, KH2, AND KH3 and they all told him to keep doing what he's doing lmao

"She's never had her character fleshed out therefore it should never be fleshed out."

Ok

There is pleeeeeenty of potential if they ever cared to explore it.

Sora was literally treated like a child by DandG ffs.

Why does he have to promise to be a good little boy when he's GOING TO SAVE YOUR KING?

I agree with this. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. I live by that saying.

I've seen the damage done by showrunners letting the fans dictate the story. I actually admire that Nomura ignores the fans and does what he wants. Granted, he DOES listen to criticism, but that doesn't stop him from doing what he intends to do. Some fans may consider that "insulting" to ignore their cries, but if this is the story he wants to tell, you just have to accept it.

I mean, if KH3 were left up to the fans, there would be so many different extreme outcomes:
[LIST]
[*]Aqua becomes the central character somehow and TAV (with you playing as Aqua) kill Master Xehanort.
[*]Sora saves Riku in the RoD, then they have their passionate scene sharing the papou on Destiny Islands.
[*]Roxas returns and is revealed to have the Power of Waking in him, so Sora lets him and Axel/Xion defeat the Organization.
[*]The PoH are revealed to be the key to defeating Xehanort, so Kairi visits the Disney worlds and gets the power from other PoH to become strong enough to kill Xehanort.
[*]Leon and the rest of the Radiant Garden gang, through Cloud killing Sephiroth, found the way to defeat Master Xehanort, so they take the reigns at the Keyblade Graveyard - where you can play between Leon/Cloud/Tifa/Yuffie/Cid/Aerith (in their FFVIIR designs)
[*]Sora/Donald/Goofy traverse 20+ Disney worlds and there's only 1 original world - The Keyblade Graveyard - where all your Disney allies join the fight with you against the Organization instead of the original characters (who are relegated to a quick cutscene explaining their future in the end credits).
[/LIST]
Anyway, I think that Kairi getting some focus now isn't a problem and I welcome it. I always wanted to play as her and get more of her story, so in the grand scheme of the games' storyline, right now would be the best time to shine a light on Kairi. I would feel differently if it just made no sense for Kairi's game to be shoved in at a point where it didn't make sense.

With that being said, I would love a small scenario where Kairi visits key worlds that Sora went to -- that specifically relate to their relationship: NeverLand (Peter can tell her that Sora wanted to fly with her), Agrabah (Jasmine was a PoH and Aladdin can mention how much Sora talked about her), and Halloween Town (I just want Kairi to get a form change and also it'd be fun to see Jack/Sally interact with her).

That's fair. I don't know if Nomura's really going to go in the direction of Kairi being the sole protagonist when Riku's still around and active, not to mention Sora's current predicament, but it's tough to say because we don't know what the goal is in this saga. BBS, we knew Xehanort wanted Kingdom Hearts. Here, who knows what the Lost Masters and the Master of Masters want.

KH1 and CoM had the benefit of the endgame seemingly being KH2, but by KH2, we knew there were plenty more things to expect over the horizon. It's possible that with this saga, he's already planned it out fully, but we'll just have to see.


Yeah, people think that just because there's multiple playable characters, it means they're all equally protagonists. Which is a fair conclusion to come to, but that's not the case in BBS and DDD. It's like Yakuza 0, you play as Kiryu and Majima, but it's still Kiryu's story you're following overall.

The fact that BBS gives you more Aqua content should pretty much say everything it needs to, but misunderstandings do happen.



Seconded. There's a reason why most people's fanfictions don't take off lmao. At most, Nomura just needs an editor like how mangakas do for Shonen Jump (and I presume any major magazine as well). I love Kingdom Hearts because of the craziness that comes from his mind, the creativity, all of it. Fans taking over would end up turning the series into a RomCom with occasionally some fights and mystery lmao. I'm good.

You just reminded me of a certain rewrite by a youtuber where their wonderful climax idea was just that one scene from Endgame but with Disney characters.

I like the video in general, I think it added a lot of interesting changes (many of them ended up in ReMind anyway, so you know Nomura was of similar mind), but that particular scene from Endgame doesn't work for multiple in-universe reasons (RIP Chadwick Boseman). The next best thing was the Union X - Light of The Past segment, which is what we got.

Not to mention, the last thing I want people to crucify KH3 for is for "ripping off" Endgame.

To be honest, I was kind of expecting KH3 to have Disney characters fighting at the Keyblade Graveyard to backup Sora... and I was hoping for that before Endgame did it. I think it was viable and made sense to do, but now that Endgame did it, people will just scream ripoff.

When I reached the end of the game (and realized it was the end of the game), and finally noticed no Final Fantasy characters, I was expecting them to pop up during the final battle to help us out in a cutscene battle as a surprise. I think that would have been seen as less "ripoff" and also probably shut up all the FF fans that were angered by their absence. Also, probably easier to get approved than having Disney characters (especially Anna/Elsa) fight against Master Xehanort in the Keyblade Graveyard.

It wasn't viable at all considering Disney's rules about characters crossing over into other worlds. Perhaps they'll be more lax about it going forward, but there was no chance of such an event taking place in KH3.

But while we're on this topic, RIP the proposed scenario in KH1 where the princes would team up with Sora in Hollow Bastion to rescue the princesses, which Disney shot down :(

Yeah, I'd much rather follow Nomura's fanfic than the fanbases. It's not perfect, but this mess of a series is my absolute favorite game franchise. Only Nomura could create such convoluted characters that I love to death and cry like a baby when they appear XD



Well we did get the likes of not-Simba, not-Ariel, not-Stitch, and not-Ralph fighting alongside Sora should you choose to use them. Heck Simba carried my Sora through all of Limitcut. Who says Disney characters don't affect the series lol.

I'm personally one of those people who wanted Sephiroth to be a Seeker of Darkness.

Would have been a good excuse to resolve his conflict with Cloud and save Zack, lol
Disney not wanting the Disney characters to crossover may also explain why the new PoH weren't used more and only half appeared

This is what I was thinking, which turned into the in-universe rules of keeping the World Order in check. Otherwise, I feel like Aladdin definitely would've come with Sora to save Jasmine in KH1 lol. Having the Endgame-style appearance in KH3 would be interesting in theory (I'm not personally a fan of it though, if it were 1:1 like Endgame - Endgame makes it great, KH should be unique in how it'd be done), but you'd have to explain why the World Order suddenly gets tossed out the window, how they even arrive at the Keyblade Graveyard to begin with, and who in the world told them enough information for them to just hop in a mysterious portal in order to help Sora.

That's the issue with rewrites, they sound simple enough until you have to think about everything that comes into play. It's easy to say "I can write this better!", but a lot of it really just comes down to "This would be cool if THIS happened", not much else. And as much as people have gripes with Nomura's writing, majority of what he's established in-universe has remained consistent. The only thing that's largely changed is that Nobodies can grow hearts if a connection is formed long enough, which was implied as early back as Days, which I would have to assume was written co-currently with KH2 or at least right after but had been in Nomura's mind during KH2's development.

Not to mention, if a KH game is gonna pull that sort of move, it's gonna have to be the final game to do that. Disney is way more likely to allow that for a final send-off instead of a series that quite possibly is only NOW starting to heat up. Definitely was out of the question for KH3.



Thing is too, this is Nomura's story, so at least if he's writing a large percentage of it (or even just the idea guy), there's consistency in terms of how mysteries would unfold and whatnot. If it were up to fans, Sora would've died in KH2, Roxas would've taken over as a protagonist, and Riku would've continued to be the edgy blindfold kid in Days. I would've hated that.

I meant that this being KH3 - the climax of the series - it would make sense for all these characters affected by this outside force and hurting their friend (Sora) to show up and help fight. Granted, I would quicker expect Sora's friends from past games to show up over the ones in KH3 because the bonds Sora made with past friends was way tighter than the ones with KH3 friends (except maybe Rapunzel and Hiro).

I know Disney would forbid it, but I just meant that KH3 being the big finale - it would have been justified to throw the world order in the bin... had it not been for Disney's rules. People like The Beast, Aladdin, Ariel, Simba, Mushu, Tron, Jack Skellington, and Hercules are aware of other worlds.

I know you can summon them for the fights, but I don't think that's canon for the story. If what you did for the fight was canon, then Simba was present during the fight with Master Xehanort and Yozora lol. I wanted to see the Disney characters show up in cutscene. They could have just helped fight the heartless, while the keyblade wielders went ahead.

In order to get that sort of Endgame effect without changing things too much, I would have had the Disney allies help Sora fight the Lich with a short cutscene or two with them. It would have livened up that whole sequence. It’s kind of a bore and repetitive as is.

We also could've had unnecessary scenes like Phil calling SDG true heroes despite KH2 literally wrapping that up with the constellation scene and Roxas and Ven overreacting to their identical features even though Ven probably already knew just from Axel going on about it back at Yen Sid's tower.

I wouldn't call it an Endgame ripoff, because naruto did it first

I'm sure if you dig into the past, there would be those team ups of everyone we've seen before (the end of Digimon Season 2 comes to mind). That's why I think it could have worked for KH3, as it was the big climax.

yeah, that's what I meant too, I think it would be okay to do it, because it makes sense for a final battle

Except these would be called character moments, not unnecessary scenes.

•The constellation scene was shown after the fact they helped saved Olympus and being called a True Hero would have served as a confidence boost for Sora. After all, SDG took PHIL's word for it (he trained Herc after all), not THE GODS. See again the cutscene (start at 33:49).

•Roxas wouldn't have overreacted, VENTUS would have. It's the distinction between same face, different people. The idea that fellas would merely go "HmM?", even in the middle of fighting MX, is laughable. We at least got some nice banter in ReMIND indicating the scenario writers understood that fact AFTER THE FACT, but the original KH3 outing was disappointing to say the least.

Ya wanna know what was really unnecessary? Showing Riku and Mickey exposition dump in the early hours of the game, the absolutely strange "Aqua is like Sora" joke (which I still don't understand Riku's reaction to btw), Riku telling RR that "[he's] got [his] own" before facing AntiAqua down, every single moment in game wasted calling Sora an incompetent bumbling idiot. Showing Kairi and Axel just talk empty KH talk in a CGI forest, instead of showing them fighting and learning the rudimentary ways of the Keyblade.


Yeah, because it's a war. Not a field trip.

But these guys did it best.

I see the hypothetical Phil and RoxVen scenes as unnecessary because they're just the desires of fans that, in regards to the former, apparently thought SDG literally getting recognized by THE FREAKIN GODS as true heroes didn't mean they were true heroes just cuz Not-Danny DeVito didn't say it even though he said it wasn't his call. Meaning this hypothetical scene would only exist to satisfy the people that see Phil's word as the end-all be-all.

And in regards to the latter, the desires of fans that think there should be a whole scene dedicated to Roxas and Ven talking about how they look and sound the same even though at this point neither of them would give a single damn about that.

And like I said, Ven probably already knew that Roxas looked like him simply cuz of Axel going on about it at the tower. For all we know the "hmm" from Ven was just him noticing that the identical guy standing not far from him was the "Roxas" that Axel was talking about.

Yeah it also just would make sense for a series that has the tagline "My Friends Are My Power" to have the friends you made along the way stand at your side and lend you their strength holding back the Heartless while you take on the real big baddies.

Also as others have pointed out it is a trope that has been used before by other series. Sadly still with Endgame being the biggest and most recent take on this, it would inevitably be compared and called a rip-off.

Yeah, precisely. There's a fine line between fan-service and serviced by the fans. You lean into trying to go for the fan-favorite moments too much, and you take away your vision for what you wanted it to be. Fans generally don't know what they want until you put it in front of them, and if it's good enough, they'll take it. If the only complaint about ReMind is the fact that it's $30 and covered stuff that Nomura already said it'd cover, that's a win.

Conversely, look at what happened to Final Fantasy XV. The game shipped out clearly being unfinished by the deadline, and while they were able to stay afloat for a while and listen to the fans about what they wanted... Eventually, it came to bite them in the ass. People were making YouTube videos about how Square Enix was wrong for making them pay for more DLC that wasn't a part of the original Season Pass (Referring to the Royal Pack/Royal Edition). They wanted more lore cut-scenes in the game, but instead, we get free events like Terra Battle featuring a female protagonist with way more charisma than Luna ever showed, and Sarah had even less time than Luna did. And when it finally came down to possibly giving the fans everything they wanted (via another Season Pass), the fans get even more upset, the director leaves Square, and the whole project gets cancelled.

The lesson here is that you want to find a balance of both applying fan-service and sticking to your guns, but if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

Other lesson: finish your damn game before releasing it.

SE and their ardent fans: We hear you and understand. As a result of better taking in fan feedback, we will now release FFXV on mobile phones in a free to start format!

If FFXV was a 2019 release, I really believe that it would've delivered on the hype. In fact, it's that very situation that's made me adopt the new mentality of patience when it comes to game releases. I remember when people got all impatient about KH3 not being at events or getting a release date, same with FF7R. And then when KH3 came out, you had a bunch of people saying "Yeah, this needed to be delayed (it didn't)." On the flip side, look at how much Square taking their time paid off with FF7R. Bigger lesson? Patience is a virtue... Sometimes.

I think XV was a major lesson learned for the company, because you don't see them jumping out the window with releases so much anymore. Jury is out on Project Athia, but notice how it's been radio silence from Square all around. Hopefully they've learned.

I've never really thought about it before (mostly because I know that Disney's increasing restrictions would never have even allowed PoHs in the final world a la KH1 anymore), but I think it would be interesting if, when Sora was left alone after the other Lights had just died, his heart unintentionally called out to all the major Disney characters he met in his distress and they appeared there for moments to help him. As in, similar to the way Beast ends up in Hollow Bastion simply because he wanted to follow Belle.

It would've been a nice callback to KH1, as you said. If the collective power of their hearts helped him to bring all the fellow Keyblade wielders back to life, I would've loved that even more and it definitely would've made more sense than Kairi somehow being able to do that? The Disney characters wouldn't even have to interact with one another, maybe just appear in bubbles or pools of light or something where you can see they are still technically on their own worlds despite being able to be seen / heard by Sora.

These are terrible examples to pick as nearly everything here serves a necessary function to the story they were telling in KH3?

Showing Riku and Mickey exposition dump in the early hours of the game

This literally sets up one of the major themes of the game as well as Riku's arc. It happening early in the game is also key as it is directly paralleled to the arc Sora is going through. Sora ends Olympus with the understanding that in order to save the people he wants to save he'll need to find a special strength ("I'll find my strength the way you found yours, something to fight for, with all my heart"). The scene with Riku is the answer to the question posed in Sora's arc. Mickey tells him that that special strength comes from caring so much for someone that all else fades away, that there is no room for fear or doubt. Sora's arc is about finding that special strength and what it means and he learns what it looks like and what it means to care for someone like that through the game through the Disney worlds. Riku has already finished that part of the arc (it's what he learned in DDD) and his arc is now about what it means to actually use that strength. This early scene is setting up the key thematic throughline of the game, as well as the set up for Riku's actions in the Keyblade Graveyard. Beyond that, on a more surface level, these early scenes are establishing the complications in the search for Aqua and her status, the necessity of the power of waking, and setting up that whole aspect of the game. Hardly unnecessary.

the absolutely strange "Aqua is like Sora" joke (which I still don't understand Riku's reaction to btw)

It's not that difficult to grasp. Riku is taken aback at the suggestion that this serious Keyblade Master he's only heard glowing things about could be just like his lovable dumbass reckless friend Sora who throws himself into dangerous situations without a thought and doesn't take things seriously. This is why he calms down when Mickey clarifies that Aqua is strong like Sora, not that she acts like him. As for what function this is serving, aside from providing a moment of levity in a previously heavy-handed serious scene, it's meant to both put some ease on the pressure the characters are under (while Aqua does need to be saved, throwing themselves recklessly into the depths of darkness without a plan isn't smart, knowing that Aqua is strong like Sora and that she'll be okay while they figure something out) it also is used to draw a clear connection and parallel between Aqua and Sora. This helps set up Sora saving her later in the game, while also foreshadowing that Sora will befall a similar fate to Aqua in the end of the game.

Riku telling RR that "[he's] got [his] own" before facing AntiAqua down

I feel like you misunderstood this? Riku isn't telling Repliku that at all. He's replying to Aqua based on something Aqua had just said. Largely though, this, again, is not unnecessary, it serves a function. It's calling back to Riku and his character arc, primarily. Throughout KH3 Repliku represents Riku's Past Self (and by extension, the mistakes he made before) and how he's grown from it and treats his past self with compassion. Obviously Repliku is not Riku's Past Self exactly, but it's what he represents for Riku. So this scene is calling attention to that. Riku explicitly references his past sorrow and hurt and then the character that symbolizes that past appears (wielding the Way to Dawn no less) and helps him regain his strength to face Aqua. It's also serving the necessary function of reminding the audience and players of Repliku and of Riku connecting with him the last time he was in the Realm of Darkness. Most key elements in stories follow an arc of Set-up -> Reminder -> Pay Off. The early scene with Riku and Mickey in the RoD where Riku crosses paths with Repliku is the Set-Up. This scene, toward the start of Act 3, is the Reminder. With the pay-off happening in the climax. So, yeah, it is necessary and performs multiple functions in the story.

every single moment in game wasted calling Sora an incompetent bumbling idiot

Aside from providing moments of levity and characterization (which are far from being unnecessary?) this is also extremely clear set-up for Sora's lack of self-worth and why he falters in the Keyblade Graveyard ("Without them... I'm worthless."). Like this is so incredibly obviously serving a purpose in the story?

Showing Kairi and Axel just talk empty KH talk in a CGI forest, instead of showing them fighting and learning the rudimentary ways of the Keyblade.

Scenes of them training and learning rudimentary Keyblade maneuvers is like the definition of an unnecessary scene. Would it have been nice to see? Sure. But it wouldn't have added much to the story. If anything, it might actually make the story feel worse (having increased emphasis on Lea and Kairi's actual training would have just made them whiffing it due to being new to the Keyblade in the final act be even more pronounced as it's putting way more investment into it).Also the claim that the Kairi and Axel scenes are just empty talking and not necessary is wild to me. Honestly, it's the remark that pushed me to bother replying because I just found it egregious. Both scenes are very clearly performing multiple functions for the story.

The first scene is clearly setting up Kairi and Axel's storylines for the game with them learning the Keyblade in order to be able to wield it in the final battle. That much is obvious. It's also establishing their relationship. It addresses their past relationship and how things have started to be mended but isn't quite there yet. They're distant with each other. They sit far apart. Their conversation is wooden and awkward. This is all characterization and set-up, and necessary. In addition to that, we also have Kairi's letter to Sora which sets-up their relationship for the game, as well as setting up Sora's larger arc and his character. It also foreshadows Sora cracking under the pressure of trying to save everyone. It also reveals Kairi's character -- she no longer wants to just sit and wait around, she wants to do what she can to help. On Axel's side, this is literally the scene that sets-up Xion in the game and reminds players of her and how she is part of his goal and motivation even if he can't remember her.

Stories need set-up in order to have pay-off. That applies both on a larger series framework, but also in individual entries of stories. You can't have Xion show up in the Keyblade Graveyard at the end of the game, without having her being set-up earlier in the game. Some of these scenes may seem unnecessary to a diehard fan who, for example, knows that Xion needs to be saved or whatever from a past game, but that doesn't change the fact that they are necessary on a fundamental story level to be included. That's how stories work.

Anyway, so far, a lot of necessary stuff in this first scene. Let's jump to the second scene of "empty talk". Here their training is almost finished. Immediately we can see the change that has happened in their relationship. They talk more easily with each other. They comment on each other. Kairi teases Axel like three times showing a comfortable familiarity with each other (while also showing Kairi's personality). Axel's refusal to change his clothes plays into his larger motivations (though most people don't seem to pick up on this one, but he believes he'll have a better chance of saving Roxas and Xion if he looks like how they remember him (this is the same reason he asks to be called Axel again) as he says "This is how you pick me out of a crowd. I make myself easy to remember")). Now, Kairi and Axel sit right next to each other. An immediate visual cue of how they've grown closer and more comfortable. With their training being finished, they are both dealing with anxiety about what it means to go back into the "Real world" and face these things (set-up for how things go in the final act!). Kairi dives into her motivation more, specifically about wanting to save Naminé. She gives what is honestly a character (and game) high-point for her, where she delivers a beautiful speech about Naminé and articulates wonderfully why these people deserve to be saved, why they deserve a second chance. Previously, these characters being saved had only been described in utilitarian ways by Yen Sid ("they have more to achieve") and them being needed to fight Xehanort. Here, Kairi reveals the humanity of the situation and why it is fundamentally important for them to be saved, not just to fight in some war, but because they deserve more than that. It's a beautiful scene, written and delivered well and an important point to underscore right before the break into Act Three which focuses on saving these characters. To call it empty talk is honestly insulting.

Axel then talks about Ven, and having met him as a kid. This serves a larger point of reminding the player of their connection, but it also is getting into Axel's character. Axel has always been concerned about people remembering him. He anxiously asks Kairi if she thinks Ven would even remember him after everything. This is obvious characterization for Axel, but it's also a callback to Ven and Axel's first meeting where Lea explains why he's so concerned with people remembering him ("I want everyone I meet to remember me. Inside people's memories, I can live forever"). He admits that now that they're going back into the real world and having to face all of these things, he's "worried about everything." Kairi replies, "Well, you don't have to worry alone anymore, Axel." A beautiful line that honestly stuck with me still. It captures just how much they've grown close to each other. In many ways it echoes their first meeting back in KH2, where Axel tries to trick Kairi into coming with him by pointing out how they both miss someone they care about and sarcastically says it's like they're already friends, to which Kairi rebuffs it. Here, they are both openly commiserating about missing people they care about and how important it is to save them, and have become actual genuine friends, no longer needing to worry alone. It's lovely, and accomplishes far more than if these scene were just replaced with scenes of them play-sparring or getting Keyblade 101 from Merlin.

Both scenes are accomplishing a lot, on story/plot levels, character levels, development levels, thematic levels, etc. They're far from empty KH talk.

None of this is really unnecessary.

Honestly, I'm a fan of that entire post, an incredible read, but THIS especially is what I'd like to add onto:

When you're not really thinking about it, you feel like the game really takes opportunities at every turn to call Sora a dumbass... Despite how he's the reason why everybody actually has a shot at being saved. But it's that very dynamic (the responsible "dumbass") that ends up making the guy fall to pieces when everyone lost their lives to the Heartless Tornado. You can't even blame him. Think about everything that leads up to it.

In the very beginning of the game, Pete and Maleficent paid Sora dust because of how weak he was, and he was noticeably upset by it. He said he was okay after, but anyone with a reasonable sense of emotional intelligence knows Sora's just bottling it up. This even goes back to the end of DDD where Yen Sid tells Sora he failed the exam, and you see him get sad but perks up right away. DDD takes place right before KH3, so there's no real time for Sora to really deal with feelings of failure. In fact, this is the same sort of incident that sent Terra down his path of (unintentional) darkness. It's just that Yen Sid isn't a Light Extremist and didn't embarrass Sora for falling to darkness, but the inner shame is still there. If it wasn't for Riku, he would've never woken up.

We can even go further and mention how Xigbar also plays a part in this, because of the whole "As if the Keyblade would choose a wimp like you." speech he did. (Which is stupid on his part, because UX had tons of kids with Keyblades that weren't particularly remarkable, but that's Xigbar trying to mess with Sora's head as per usual.)

So with that massive chip on Sora's shoulder, imagine how it's gotta feel for everyone to basically be saying "Hey Sora, we know you're stupid and all, but make sure you don't fuck this one up!" Of course, there's no malice behind the jokes, but just like in life, you can't tell someone how to handle a joke. Especially if you don't know what they're experiencing, plus those jokes were never funny to Sora anyway. The Keyblade wasn't originally his, he failed the Mark of Mastery exam and needed to be bailed out, the constant ribbing at his expense, being reminded of not having the Power of Waking yet and being completely stripped of his strength... No wonder he broke down. And if you noticed, Sora's never really the same after that.

Sora calling himself worthless must've been a trip for Riku to hear, because he must've never expected Sora to say something like that at all. Especially when Riku had his own hangups and insecurities he had to overcome, largely in part due to feeling inferior to Sora. So imagine the guy you've been trying to catch up to all this time is saying these sorts of things. This is why KH3's writing is a lot deeper than people give it credit for, but because it didn't give them certain character interactions or Radiant Garden exploration, they think it's all trash.

I mean, 90% of the jabs toward Sora come from Donald.

The worst one is honestly when he says Sora is a useless chump without him and Goofy RIGHT AFTER SORA WATCHED KAIRI GET SLICED, basically reaffirming Sora's belief that he is worthless without his metaphorical crutches.

Like...you don't say that to someone when they're basically on the verge of breaking down again.

That's like if Dante decided to be an asshole and repeatedly call Nero dead weight for no reason while saying that he's nothing without the Devil Bringer.

Yeah, or if they were really super restricted, they could have done what Dragonball did with the genkidama. Have the Disney and FF characters in their own worlds feel Sora's distress close their eyes and put their hands on their heart and say "Sora", sending him their power. Powering Up the keyblade letting him cut through the darkness and lead the guardians all back to him, like in the opening credits.

I'd really like something like this because that'd make the more fillery worlds also feel like they have an importance and impact. Though with the change in Graphic Design and the price of voice actors it'd probably would have been too much of a budgetary strain.

I mean to be fair Sora's Keyblade is the one that the World of Light bestowed upon one who's worthy. That seems to be different than how most get/got their Keyblade. Also sadly Xigbar was right. The Keyblade chose Riku. Sora did earn it afterwards but that may be something that Sora himself didn't get over yet. But that might be exactly why Xigbar said it; because he knew it would hurt.

[USER=236656]@Audo[/USER] Thank you. While I got some of that most of that information flew over my head, probably because I didn't allow myself to ruminate over too many of the KH... Scenes because I had ran through the game as fast as possible to get to remind on first playthrough. Sorry that my entire grammar, and intelligence degraded, first overnight shift at work and I fell asleep twice writing this short message and can't remember my points.

I don't remember it being stated that Sora's Keyblade is a special one (though the x-blades design definitely does imply it). To my knowledge excepts for Mickey's all of the Guardian's and even Xehanort's are Keyblades of the Realm of Light. Though the lore on how people get Keyblades seems to have changed a bit from being chosen by one to being worthy and learning to manifest one.



3D made it a point that Sora's not too bothered by being the second choice. While it would make sense for it to be factor, I think it might be more indirect. Like because Sora wasn't the first one chosen by the Keyblade, he began relying more on his friends as the source of his power and strength, which resulted in him feeling powerless without them.

Yeah, and even then though, the Keyblade DID choose Sora in the end, so not being chosen right away is a moot point. Riku's originally the wielder of the Kingdom Key, but the second time it went to Sora, it's because of his own strength he gained (it's the very same moment that "my friends are my power!" is born). So if the Kingdom Key is a particular kind of Keyblade that only chooses the most worthy, that's an incredible accomplishment for Sora to end up claiming it permanently instead of it just disappearing and going to somebody else. It's even more of a moot point because Aqua nearly did the ceremony for Sora too, and if that happened, Sora would've been no different than any regular Keyblade wielder that comes around. It's not even like Sora was straight up incapable, he just lacked the normal means. So the way Sora even became a wielder is miraculous, if not damn near legendary.

Xigbar doesn't want Sora to know that though, so he'll berate him for it. So even though Sora's like "Yeah whatever, I have my friends to back me up!", it's no surprise that losing his friends would make him shatter. Sora doesn't really understand just how incredible he really is. He says his friends are his power, but the only reason why that might be true is because they gravitate towards him in the first place. He's the reason why his friends are his power, and I think that's what Riku wanted to say but couldn't in that moment (for obvious reasons).



Exactly. You ask anybody who knows Sora and they'll tell you how strong he is (if not reckless to a fault). Sora's whole journey has been him relying on his friends, nearly every major moment had Donald and Goofy with him. That's why ReMind is incredible, because he's going it alone this time, and that's why it was a shock for him to not bring Donald and Goofy along. Especially after they just helped him beat Master Xehanort.

Sora's insecurities are the opposite of what Riku felt insecure about, they parallel in that way. Riku was able to overcome those flaws, used it as a source of strength instead, and became a Keyblade Master. Sora hasn't had that kind of journey yet, so that's why I would love a game where Sora comes to grips with the fact that he can't rely on his friends forever, and there comes a time where he has to stand on his own (which he absolutely can). And with Sora in The Final World and possibly winding up in Shubuya eventually, it's an excellent time for him to grow. He doesn't have Donald and Goofy, or Riku or Kairi to back him up, so his character arc in Phase 2 should be very interesting to see.

I'm curious when Melody of Memories takes place. Before, during, or after Kairi's year sleep. Maybe all of the above. I'm certain she'll be awake by the end of the game, otherwise she could sleep right through the next game, which would be horrible.

Either way, I feel sorry for anyone who tries to interact with her when she wakes up. Year long morning breath, yuck. Don't get in her face let the girl freshen up first!

My gut feeling has always been that this game spans the year and goes beyond Limit Cut's ending. I assume that the Riku scenes would be towards the end and he talked to the Fairy God-Mother

That said I find the idea of him going to wake her up and being knocked out by her breath hilarious. Guess it'd be Riku's turn to sleep for a year.

Now available for preorder from the PSN http://sqex.link/KH_MoM_PSN

Theme is shown in this graphic

I agree.

Although now that I've seen people raise the excellent point that maybe TAV aren't in the Realm of Darkness 24/7 for a year, I'm thinking maybe Kairi doesn't literally sleep for a year. Maybe they scan her heart at the lab in daily sessions.

But it's not as fun and dreamy as a year-long memory journey.



And with Riku's super-developed sense of smell, there'd be enough Stench of Light to launch a DDD volume 2 :D

While that would make sense, it seems to me, by the way Riku worded it, that Kairi was asleep for the whole year. Having this game take place during that time would also help counteract the notion that she's just been sidelined for a whole year again.

Considering how weird time is in the Realm of Darkness and how supposedly hard getting in and out can be, I assume that AVT has been in the RoD this whole time. Though I am curious as to why Mickey and Riku can't last a few hours/days while the Wayfinders are there a whole year. Guess Aqua's experience is coming in handy.



Haha I actually forgot about Riku's super-sensitive nose. Poor guy will be overwhelmed for sure. At least we know how the next DDD gets started.

I still can't really justify the year thing to myself, but I'm hoping this game/future games manage to. If it was a year passing where they just lived out their lives, cool, that's fitting. But instead they spend a year fixating on Sora and none of them (that we've seen) appear to change in any way? Seems so arbitrary and boring compared to what stories could have been told.

Well the only two we do see a year later are Kairi and Riku, so there's still room for change for the others.

Yeah, I'm honestly a little peeved by the year thing, but I'm going to hope and believe there is a good reason for the large gap.

In a way it feels intentional so they could fit in some projects to cover that time period (liketheD+series). After all, there are a bunch of things being prepared for the 2nd Phase of Kingdom Hearts.

If that TV series for Disney+ is legit that could cover what the other characters were up to over the past year. The Disney trio in Disney worlds, the Twilight Gang in Twilight Town, and TAV in the Realm of darkness

I heard KH will be presented at an event later this month, but since we got the final trailer what are they likely to showcase for it? I'm guessing it'll be screenshots, an interview maybe , and some character models. What would we expect from this?

The devs are going to talk about the game and share stories from production, and there will be a live piano performance.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/square-enix-to-hold-kh-melody-of-memory-tgs-2020-special-show.223491/[/URL]

Remember what Jack did to Luxord? It's a formidable weapon indeed. Kairi and Jack are the KH-equivalent to Malboros at this rate.

It was stated all throughout the first game, that the Kingdom Key is granted by the collective will of the Realm of Light. That fact was treated with less and less importance as more Keyblades were introduced, because it functions exactly like they do besides coming from an extraordinary source. The importance of the Kingdom Key was reintroduced in 0.2 a fragmentary passage, with Mickey going to get the Kingdom Key D from the Realm of Darkness and specifically saying that Sora had the counterpart, and remember, Mickey already had a Keyblade before he got the KKD, meaning there was something special about that Keyblade for him to want to get it.

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This is actually some of my favorite writing in KH3. All of the Disney Worlds that Sora visits, have some thematic throughline towards the climax of the game. Maybe not Monster's Inc. I'm not sure about that one. I think that's just story importance and not as much thematic purpose.
Some of the worlds have something to say about sacrifice:

Olympus: Hercules deciding not to become a god to stay with Megara. Honestly this may be the weakest one. Unlike the movie we don't have his build up of always wanting a place that he belongs. Knowing that he can go back to Olympus if he becomes a great Hero,and how Megara, Phil and Pegasus become his family on Earth and he's happy with that. KH3 tries to call back to that, but if you've never seen Hercules it probably wouldn't hit as hard. It also happens to be where Sora learns "With all my heart" which even though it's what he's done before, it solidifies the concept for him.

Carribean: Even though it has a similar problem to Olympus in that some (a lot of) context from the movie is gone, we did at least know that Will and Elizabeth were in love, and that Will would go out of his way and into danger for her. And so he sacrifices his mortal life for his loved ones. Much like Sora does for Kairi.
Other worlds have various themes that relate to the end:

Toy Box: Buzz loses hope of seeing his friends again, which made him primed to lose, he couldn't really fight without any hope, and darkness overcame him. That Parallels with Sora quite well, having his friends taken away from him one by one caused him to give into despair and lose. Young Xehanort even says to him in Toy Box that, and I'm paraphrasing "If the Light of being together is a great power, then the Darkness of being alone is even greater than that" and Sora seemed shocked. At first I thought it was odd but now I realized that Sora has never been alone, and he might be fearful of that.

Even in Castle Oblivion even though he looked alone, he had always had Donald and Goofy with him. The only times where he was close to being alone in KH were twice. Before he met Donald and Goofy in Twilight Town (but even then he still had people around him who acted as allies), and when Donald and Goofy abandoned him. Even though Beast was with him at the time, he was emotionally alone without Donald and Goofy. Also Beast isn't the best emotional support. Wow. I didn't expect Toy Box to be this long.

Corona and Arendelle are pretty much the same in theme: True love saving others. What Kairi did for Sora by holding onto his heart and saving it from darkness.

Sanfransokyo is another one of those worlds that has more story importance than thematic importance. Being pretty much all about Repliku as a character, how he was born and his future as told through the second (first?) Baymax.

100 Acre Woods spoils the ending that Sora would disappear as a whole. He disappears from the book, and Poohbear is worried because he feels that Sora will soon leave him forever. It's a premonition, from arguably the brightest world in the entire game.

I always thought it was more impressive that TERRA chose Riku, while the KEYBLADE chose Sora. That speaks way more to Sora's worth. There was probably some underlying thing that made Terra choose Riku (possibly influence by the keyblade itself), but Sora's ability to wield came solely from the keyblade.

Where do people get this idea from? I see it so often.
There is no official source for the Kingdom Key (or Kingdom Key D for that matter) being in any way special or representative of the entire Realm or uniquely sentient as compared to other Keyblades.

It's just a Keyblade. Riku's, originally. Sora only has it because of a fluke.

KH1 doesn't say anything like that though

The importance of the Kingdom Key was reintroduced in 0.2 a fragmentary passage, with Mickey going to get the Kingdom Key D from the Realm of Darkness and specifically saying that Sora had the counterpart, and remember, Mickey already had a Keyblade before he got the KKD, meaning there was something special about that Keyblade for him to want to get it.

Mickey needed a Keyblade from the Realm of Darkness to close the Door to Darkness.
That's all.

Pretty sure all Keyblades the Guardians wield, minus Mickey's, are one's from the Realm of Light. My understanding is that everything we learned about the Keyblade in KH1 is supposed to be true to all Keyblades from the Realm of Light.

While Mickey did have a Keyblade before KKD, it was a Keyblade of Light. To seal the Door to Darkness, he needed a Keyblade from the Realm of Darkness.
At the moment we know very little about Keyblades of Darkness, other than you find them in the Realm of Darkness and they supposedly make traveling to the RoD easier.

For all we know each time a Keyblade of Light chooses someone and manifests a dark counterpart spawns in the RoD. So there could be Braveheart D and Destiny's Embrace D out there for all we know.

While i don't rule out the Kingdom Key being special (there has to be a reason for it's inclusion in the x-blade's design). The games and presented text have yet to really confirm it.

For now there are 3 types of Keyblades and the x-blade: light, darkness and heart.
DDD's Glossary categorizes both Sora's and Riku's as Keyblades of Light and doesn't differentiate between them.

My theory for the X-Blade using the Kingdom Key design is that Kingdom Key is THE keyblade from the realm of light (like Kingdom Key D being the one from the realm of darkness). All other keyblades that originate from the realm of light were passed down or bestowed upon "chosen wielders". I believe Terra made Riku able to wield (bestowing the power upon him) and the Kingdom Key was going to choose him, but then Riku was corrupted and the Kingdom Key (the defining keyblade of the realm of light) chose Sora instead - hence making Sora able to wield without the power being passed down or bestowed upon him (making him special). Riku's Way To The Dawn was a keyblade that he got at the keyblade store until he was able to save up and buy Braveheart (#sarcasm).

Anyway, because the Kingdom Key is the number one keyblade of the realm of light - it only makes sense for the X-Blade to be designed like it. It's basically bringing the light together (two Kingdom Keys) which is what the clash of 13 darknesses and 7 lights was supposed to do. To me, the ultimate light keyblade (Kingdom Key) being joined is symbolic of the ancient past when the world was completely light. The beauty to the design (even though I think it could have been improved) is the keychain being the two Kingdom Keys joined (light), but the heartless symbol (darkness) lurking behind it - ultimately saying that no matter how much light there is, darkness will always be creeping around in it.

You are replying to a post contesting that Kingdom Key D even is that.

Wouldn't No Name be the number one Keyblade of Light? It is the first to be made after all?

Then again the glossaries did leave it open, so that not all keyblades are necessarily man made, so maybe it's one of the ones MoM and his followers didn't have a hand in crafting?

An explanation I have though of as to why Kingdom Key kind of resemble the X-Blade is that they were modeled after it. Keyblades are supposedly made in the X-Blade's image yet only the Kingdom Key and the Starlight really resemble it.

In the Age of Fairy Tales all wielders had Starlight Keyblades, which also resemble the Kingdom Key a bit, as base Keyblades that they modify with upgrades and Keychains. What if the Kingdom Key is just another base Keyblade? Maybe one that predates Starlight even.

That's what I was thinking. Even though, in real life chronology, we saw the Kingdom Key first then the X-Blade. In the KH world, Kingdom Key is derived from the X-Blade. It would also somewhat explain why the keybalde from the realm of darkness is teh same design as Kingdom Key, except with inverted colours.

I think Kingdom Key being a "base" keyblade rather than a special/important one may not be the case. Kingdom Key D is apparently the only keyblade in the realm of darkness, and it just so happens to take the form of Kingdom Key - which is derived from the X-Blade? There is no concrete evidence, but I believe Kingdom Key is the most important/special keyblade from the realm of light. The name itself implies its connection to Kingdom Hearts IE being the KEY to the kingdom.

Yeah, the design and name do imply a certain importance, but it could also be explain by it being an early Keyblade and the creator wanting to give it a significant name. This being Kingdom Hearts it can really go in any direction.
The fact that they basically destroyed the Kingdom Key D and made it a new Keyblade called Star Cluster kinda implies that they don't plan on doing anything with the Kingdom Keys.

We know next to nothing about Keyblades of Darkness. One of the glossaries said they are exceptional, but didn't clarify if in the sense of the Keyblade of Heart where there's only one of them or in the sense that they're all in the Realm of Darkness so you don't encounter them frequently. We also don't know who made the Keyblades of Darkness, seeing MoM most likely only made the ones for the Realm of Light, for all we know whenever a Keyblade of Light is made a dark counterpart comes into existence. So Rainfell D could be a thing.

I don't think Kingdom Key D is destroyed. I think Mickey just picked up Star Cluster from the keyblade store while Riku was shopping for Braveheart. Mickey probably added it to his collection with Starseeker.

I really wish Nomura would refocus on core elements in the series, like keyblades. He puts so much importance on the wielders, but not the mystical weapon that they wield... which then takes away from the special qualities of the wielder because the weapon isn't treated as such. In KH1, Sora having the keyblade was a big deal, in KH2 seeing Roxas with two and even Kairi fighting with it was a special moment. After KH2, it was like a keyblade giveaway and it didn't really feel special anymore. By KH3, we get scenes with more than 7 keyblades in one shot.

I thought it was stated somewhere (Ultimania?) that Star Cluster aka Kingdom Key W. Is the Kingdom Key D fused with the Starseeker Keyblade.



I agree, the writers should have spent more time establishing and developing the Keyblade and it's Mythos. Instead they just add to it, but without explaining any of it. We have three categories of Keyblades, but no real idea of how they differ.

Personally my issue isn't so much with the number of characters that can wield Keyblades as much as it's with the ratio of characters that can wield it.
If we had a big supporting cast of fighters without Keyblades, it would still seem like a special weapon and our core group are just chosen ones.

I have no issues with Mickey, AVT, SRK and RX all having Keyblades, but now all other original combative characters have Keyblades too. Axel has one, Lauriam and Elrena each have had one. Demyx and Luxord supposedly also each have had one. Isa is most likely going to get one...

At this point it is weirder that Donald and Goofy don't have Keyblades than that everyone else does.

Right now it is as if the only deciding factor in getting a Keyblade or not, is if you're from a preexisting Disney property or not.

I really hope that StarCluster is NOT a fusion of Kingdom Key D and StarSeeker. We don't need another unexplained mechanism introduced for keyblades, never to be touched on again.

I don't mind TAV, RAX (well Axel I do mind), and SRK having keyblades. I agree with you sentiment, but more original characters that don't use the keyblade doesn't seem like the solution. I think they either explain keyblades more in-depth, and maybe differentiate between whose own are "special" and whose are just passed on to them (like Sora's > Lauriam's) OR they take some away from people (I would say Axel and Xion are probably the top choices, maybe even the "ancient" wielders like Lauriam/Elrena).

They make it out that having a keyblade makes you so special, but if everyone you interact with has one, then is it really special? Fighting Riku keyblade vs. keyblade in KH1 was really something special because you didn't face anyone like that prior in that game, so seeing someone on the same level to you added to the fight. That goes for Roxas and Master Xehanort fights as well. But going forward, it seems like every original, main story antagonist will have a keyblade which is just bland.

It wouldn’t be unexplained, though. Yen Sid was the one who repaired the Keyblades. KKD and Star Seeker were two blades, one from the darkness and one from the light. I imagine that since they were two separate ones, they can just be fused by somebody experienced with Keyblades like Yen Sid, a beyond powerful former Keyblade master.

Remember back when we used to believe there was only one keyblade per realm? Good times.

I've said this before on the whole "Everyone has a Keyblade" thing. The problem isn't that they all have Keyblades. The problem is they don't use them in different ways or styles. You could give the other characters weapons that aren't the Keyblade, but they'll just get weapons that act exactly like a Keyblade if they are playable and that you'll wonder what's the difference? The Keyblade is Kingdom Hearts' Lightsaber. There was never only one Keyblade user. Even in KH1 we had three different users.

That being said I'm not saying everyone should have one. I've been whining like a baby about members 9-12 of the Organization being Keyblade wielders. Of the main cast Axel is the only one who did not need a Keyblade, only because he already had a super cool weapon and his best moves come from it rather then his Keyblade. Have I mentioned how happy I am that Axel's using them in MoM instead of his Keyblade?

My own personal problem with the Keyblade thing is how the characters in the present day apparently feel beholden to [S]Jedi[/S]wielder tradition. "There used to be a lot of keyblade wielders, then there were less and less over the years until the only people left to wield them is the youngest generation". Okay, great story! But then Sora, Riku, Kairi and Axel have to be put through specific training under one of the last remanining Masters? Why? Who cares? The "training" doesn't add anything to the story ("power levels" aren't real), and who gives a shit whether Sora and Riku get to be called "Master" or not? There's no Keyblade society for them to prove themselves in. It's just a slavish devotion to arbitrary tradition, which is the kind of story I really hate. At best it makes me dislike Yen Sid, but I know that Yen Sid won't be portrayed as flawed, because Disney mascot isn't allowed to have a character arc.

Power Levels need to be established before a distinction between Master and Not Master can meaningfully be made tbh

Not sure how "on-topic" this is, but check out this cool Smash crossover art!

But then why don't people fuse other keyblades that they have? Riku could have just fused the broken Way To The Dawn with Braveheart to "power it up".

Because we don't know if there is KH math requored to power keys up. We dont yet know for example if Keyblade Levelibg is purely a gameplay mechabic or if there is some basis to it in the lore. We dont know if keuvlases are tempered. We dont knoe if a stronfer heart gives a new key.

They don't have other Keyblades, though. Sora uses keychains to change his Keyblade's form, but people only ever really have one Keyblade. One of the only other people besides Mickey to have access to two different Keyblades has been Aqua with her own Keyblade and Master's Defender, but Kingdom Key D and Master's Defender are unique Keyblades.

Riku left his broken Keyblade behind. He didn't want to take it with him since he didn't need it anymore. I'm sure they could have fused it with Braveheart (wherever the hell it came from lol) but Riku left it for Replica Riku.

Fusing Way to Dawn and Brave heart might have made the latter Keyblade look more visually appealing. Still not a fan of it's design. Which sucks since Riku will probably be stuck with it for the remainder of the series

I still find it weird that Riku decided to leave it behind, like he was certain that a new keyblade would just choose him and that intime for the fight with Xehanort.

Well Aqua could have fused Rainfell with Master's Defender before the Keyblade Graveyard. Roxas could have fused Oathkeeper and Oblivion at the Moogle Shop in the Keyblade Graveyard to power up.

Maybe, though why she wouldn't is obvious. And it ended up better for her to have two keyblades in her hammer space.


I feel his O±O are not two keyblades, but a Keyblade transformation like Sora's dual wielding of them in KH3.

I kind of wonder, if a wielder can just pick up any keyblade and use it, like if one thinks you're worthy they all do. If so Riku getting a new blade so quickly makes sense.

Why would she, though? She didn’t break her Keyblade. Apparently Keyblades can be powered up (such a weird addition) so it’s not like she couldn’t just do that. It apparently serves a similar purpose anyways. It’s not like Mickey’s new Keyblade does anything special. It’s just two fused together.

And anyways, Master’s Defender was intrinsically tied to Land of Departure. Why would she meddle with it?

Roxas isn’t dual wielding two Keyblades anymore. It’s probably just one split into two. It’s why he held both at the same time in one hand when he was trying to stop Kingdom Hearts from falling to Xehanort’s control.

Nomura broke his lore in KH3. I’m not sure why this is important to break down when it’s clear that Nomura isn’t following his own rules anymore and is just making up new ones on the fly.



Yen Sid likely had it in his closet where he kept Starseeker, the Star Shard, and his badass light powers.

Honestly, that's more believable than Riku being so ultra-special, that he didn't just get chosen by one keyblade, but three of them. Four, if you count him being chosen to deliver Destiny's Embrace to Kairi.

The fact that Aqua in her most corrupted state was able to wield Mickey's Keyblade in the Dark Realm kind of proves that you don't need to be approved for every separate Keyblade.

Not necessarily, if the Key was not deactivated and the wielder incapacitated, then the key is effectively "lifeless". See the keys in KBG for example. Aqua "in her most corrupted state" wasn't a Darkling, the type of which was stated to have discarded the ability to wield Keyblades in favor of D A R K N E S S.

[IMG width="315px"]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/e0/e3/a2e0e3bf9b7dd2cee13e180e30234d57.gif[/IMG]

She was able to wield it because it was "fused" with a keyblade from the Realm of Darkness - Kingdom Key D.

I don't buy that. Kingdom Key D is the only Dark Realm Keyblade we know of, other "dark" characters have weilded Keyblades from the realm of light, but that's beside the point. If Keyblade bearers have to be chosen for every individual Keyblade they've ever picked up, then Riku would have had to been chosen for the Way to the Dawn, the Braveheart, Destiny's Embrace AND Roxas's Oblivion.

Seem like bridges too far for a more simple explanation

I was just mentioning it because you were making a point out of Aqua being able to wield Mickey's keyblade in her "most corrupted state". It could be that it doesn't matter what "state" you're in, once you're a keyblade wielder you can use any (like Possessed Riku in KH1 using Kingdom Key).

When does possessed Riku use the Kingdom Key? Ansem doesn't take over Riku until after he loses the Keyblade to Sora in Hollow Bastion.

Right on the money. Possessed Riku never wielded it.

Speaking of Riku, I got into an argument with a guy earlier in the day who was flat out convinced Riku was a worthless loser who loses control of the darkness and willingly becomes a pawn to "Darkness/Ansem/bad guy of the new game" in every game cuz of a desire for power.

A shockingly huge amount of people are incredibly confident with just making shit up on the fly about [insert subject here, but often video games/other media] and fully believing it. Everything I like has this kind of crazy misinformation about it

You're right that he doesn't fully take over, but isn't Riku still "corrupted" when he takes the keyblade back from Sora in Hollow Bastion? Isn't that the whole reason the keyblade chose Sora in the first place?

You're arguing for my original point on that matter now, though.

Which, for clarity's sake, was that a heart can be weakened by the corruption of darkness and lose the power of the Keyblade, in instances.


But, the original original point was that the series has more pointing towards the idea that a person once chosen for the Keyblade should be able to wield any Keyblade. Otherwise Xehanort's been chosen like four times by four separate blades. As has Riku by now.

It was weird that so many things in KH3 went unexplained, like powering up keyblades, Roxas dual-wielding, and Donald having the ability to nuke Xehanort, but honestly? With how abysmal KH3's current cutscene runtime is, I'm glad we didn't have to endure a second more of characters explaining things so other characters could grunt, moan, whine, and look left and right

Yes, I think anyone that has been chosen by the keyblade can wield any keyblade. Granted, we've seen ordinary people wield keyblades (like Leon and Jack Sparrow) although the extent of the "wielding" is questionable as it seemed to go right back to Sora (whether Sora controlled this or not is unknown).

I guess if it's your keyblade, you can call it back, even if another wielder is in possession of it (like Sora did against Riku or Sora vs. Roxas)... but again, these are all questionable moments.

The scene with Leon, is prettyclearthat Sora didn't intentionally summon it back to himself.

The scene also kind of implied that knocking the wielder out is ine of the only ways to really seperate Keyblade and wielder.

Am I crazy, or did the release date change by 2 days? I thought it said November 11th.

11th for Japan, 13th everywhere else.

Gotcha

>PS5 releases November 12
>Melody of Memory releases November 13

Chaser's wallet:

Me to sony[ATTACH=full]13018[/ATTACH]

So...uh...the fact that the next game is already being developed, and that Nomura's aiming for 2022 made me remember that Project Oath rumor.

OMG! I Just saw that they're taking songs from the orchestra tour! I NEED THEM TO INCLUDE "OVERTURE TO THE DECISIVE BATTLE"!

Plus in Aqua's case, the only time she's been using Master's Defender is because she didn't have access to Rainfall at the time. Once she returned to the Realm of Light, she probably only kept using Master's Defender out of respect for Eraqus until he could finally rest peacefully after Xehanort's defeat.

Riku definitely could've taken it with him, but I think it breaking was also a sign to him that he's outgrown the symbolism behind that Keyblade, that going forward, he'll need something stronger to protect the things that matter. He's no longer someone struggling to find his own path, he's now a Master that's strong enough to defend others. Which is actually really cool that he gives it to Replica Riku, because RR reminds him of his old self and would probably need it the most.




Yep, that's what I think too. Once you're qualified, you're not going to lose your ability to wield a Keyblade unless your heart experiences severe damage like Ven's in the beginning of BBS. Far as we know, one huge requirement is that you have to have a strong heart, so it'd be extremely unusual for a Keyblade wielder's heart to get weaker to the point of losing the ability. I'd imagine that a wielder would have to be in deep despair to the point of questioning their own strength (like where Aqua was sorta headed in 0.2) for that to happen. But even then, Anti-Aqua was using Mickey's Keyblade just fine, although corrupted =/= weak. So it's iffy.

And I mean this is the third Keyblade Riku's had. Kingdom Key was originally his, then Way to Dawn. Fourth if you want to count the Keyblade of People's Hearts. Keyblades seem to go to anybody who's qualified enough to wield one and has a strong enough heart to manage it, no questions asked. Same goes for just holding one. That's why Sora could use Way to Dawn against Xemnas in KH2 and Riku could use the Kingdom Key in DDD.

Out of curiosity: With this coming out early November, is there any possibility at all the price might get marked down a tiny bit during Black Friday / Cyber Monday? Just asking for anyone out there who might have bought a game that released in November before... If it came down to $40, I'd probably buy it then instead of waiting several months.

Not likely. You can probably get a store based coupon (e.g 10% off any video game) but

Crap! I just realized another game I’m eying comes out on the same day. Now it’s a choice between a game I’m going to suck at vs. a buggy incomplete game because the publisher is evil.

Maybe the not incomplete game is the better choice to support lol

I mean...Don’t get any of them? I think you have more power and autonomy than you think.

I'm a slave to the establishment and EA can be very convincing. I even got their latest garbage pack for The Sims...

*stares at all your Star Wars ID*

Err...no offense...

On the other hand, I'm a bundle of nerves with rhythm games and I will probably not be able to see the ending...

I was on Amazon looking at the price and then the recommended was the All In One Package at $29.99. That kind of made me second guess MoM (I mean I'm gonna get it release day but...), it's just kinda disheartening to know that I can get the entire Dark Seeker Saga for $29.99 which is hundreds of hours of gameplay (and almost all the music in MoM). To convince myself that MoM is worth it, I told myself that the OSTs are expensive, so think of it as buying the music.

Buy mom for high scores on proud mode performer stages, not for the ost. I legit poured 7 hrs into A++ing WoD1 and HiH. Now imagine they have stages for data battles, Dearly Beloved (KH2 ver.), or even Darkness of the Unknown. Goosebumps + hype

I mean, All-in-One is also a rerelease of a rerelease of a rerelease etc. and in general practice looking at you, Nintendo the price is marked down compared to the original release.

MoM, being a new game, shouldn't be held to that standard

I haven’t read everyone’s responses so I’m only asking if I should order the bundle which comes with the kh3 soundtrack plus more or will it be available in the English square enix store?

Despite all the leaks, I hope some of you are hyped for the game