Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

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https://www.khinsider.com/news/Kingdom-Hearts-3-s-theme-song-Chikai-lyrics-translation-12612

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Me every time I listen to the song and the thoughts about a sad, somber ending creep in: I DON'T WANNA KNOW, BABY, I DON'T WANNA KNOW!!!

It better end with Sora and Riku's wedding though, I s2g they've given several games of set up for that they need to pay it off with this Oath.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

btw I still can only imagine this from Riku's point of view. about Sora. because who else is there.

okay I will now sleep happy

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Reading this while listening to the song hit me even harder, and I am now crying

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There is no one else it could possibly be tbh
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Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

[FONT=Verdana]There is no one else it could possibly be tbh[/FONT]

Uhh...okay then. Not sure if you are being sarcastic...? (Let's just say I disagree and be done there).

Regardless, I love the song but it does have a bit of a sadness to it that makes me a bit worried. I also like how it almost references the previous songs in the series,t touching on feelings of nostalgia like Passion, but at the same time referring to some of the feelings from Hikari. It's kinda great in that sense.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

lol same

it sounds so bittersweet ;_; i'm kinda scared now. but also -listens on repeat until jan 29th-

i wonder if they'll remove a section for a slightly modified op and ed like they did with passion...

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

It better end with Sora and Riku's wedding though, I s2g they've given several games of set up for that they need to pay it off with this Oath.

...am I missing something?? That would be so out of left field. 0_o

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

It wasn't a serious remark but Riku loves Sora and vice versa and it comes across as more than a friend loving a friend. All of Dream Drop Distance was Riku doing nothing but talking about Sora as if someone was talking about their partner, and even between Data versions, Riku and Sora were all adorable during Re:coded.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I think Hikari Utada did a great job on this song, although I’m not a big fan of the bridge where she starts rapping. Feels really out of place imo. I also can’t wait to hear the reprises, instrumentals and/or orchestra versions of this song, Yoko gonna show Hikari how it’s done haha.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I don't approve of a lot of KH ships, but Soriku honestly makes way too much sense. Their personalities compliment each other WAY too much to just be friends! And don't think I didn't notice the tsundere act, Riku!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

This song is about the Trio but definitely about Sokai romance as well. I abolutely love it it's beuatiful. It absolutely goes in the same league as Hikari and Passion.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

i think the was the song was aiming for this as well

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Sora and Kairi's relationship has always been a huge focus in every single theme song and they literally end the game always on something with them.

Hikari ends with Kairi finding the drawing of Sora giving her the paupo fruit and drawing a reciprocation
Passion ends with Kairi and Sora exchanging her lucky charm he promised to bring back to her.

It seems obvious that Chikai is going to have a big focus on this relationship as well.

This is the end of the first arc of Kingdom Hearts. The end of the Xehanort saga.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

i think the was the song was aiming for this as well

and

Sora and Kairi's relationship has always been a huge focus in every single theme song and they literally end the game always on something with them.

Agree. I was starting to think I was taking crazy pills...

The game has NEVER hinted at romance between Sora and Riku while it definitely has for Kairi.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I mean according to the pronouns the narrator apparently shifts between a boy and a girl so... ^.^
Y'all gonna ignore five games because one other gave you shippy feels.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Oh my god we weren’t being serious. Y’all are too hyper-defensive about SoKai.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Well, for Nomura and what he explained to Utada, Passion is about Sora and Riku:

---Following the previous game, Utada Hikaru also sang the theme song for this game, "Passion." Nomura: Many fans seem to have the image Kingdom Hearts = Utada Hikaru so I didn't think of changing that at all. This time I wrote a story explanation for her that's longer than the previous game's. We decided to have it played at the last scene, so for me the theme was "Sora and Riku's reunion." I wrote stuff like "An image of a reunion, a happy moment in a way" and "Like a Hikari 2" in there.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I do want to say tho that Sora & Riku make music together and it is Dearly Beloved. Btw that is Nomura’s favorite song.

And their joint keyblade has a paopu fruit on the end of it. Don’t @ me about how the paopu isn’t romantic because it sure is romantic when in reference to SoKai so we aren’t having double standards here.

But somebody please tell me when Sora and Kairi have lied each other? What liar self does either of them refuse to go back to? The only one who fits the bill of that line is Riku.

Okay this super extra gay is done with her pushback.

This song is honestly my favorite of the whole bunch.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

not saying your wrong spockanort but i never conisder riku and sora a romatice freindship i always though as brothery freindship also has noone consder lyrics relate to the trio not just destiny trio as well

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

^^^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

anyway i'm not invested in romantic ships as much as friendships for this series, but it's kinda funny that ppl are getting defensive over this. i'm sure everyone is already aware of the whole sora/kairi situation regardless of how they personally feel about it. it doesn't really need any more reiteration lol. to each their own?




yeah that section threw me off at first too, but i think i'm already adjusting to it haha. really love the ending though. as for the orchestral versions, aren't those usually arranged by kaoru wada? either way, am supes excited for it!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

We're obvs not getting SoRiku because Disney and Square would not play ball with that. Disney's still mostly doing faux representation, and I'm not certain if Square has any explicitly gay characters.

Anyways, I think the prevailing sentiment is that when you break it down, Sora and Riku have had better components and scenes applicable to a possible romantic relationship, especially with DDD. This is somewhat humorous, because the franchise spent two installments setting up Sokai and then decided to take a 13 year break from not only Kairi herself, but her presence in Sora's mind.

In that 13 years, we've seen Sora and Riku as kids, Sora and Riku as data, and the undeniably gay KHDDD. Someone at SE is a SoRiku shipper and has put in work to get certain scenes in the games, and in lieu of Kairi's decade long absence from the series, it's hard to ignore Sora and Riku's thing.

SoKai is endgame. In some way, shape or form, KH3 is going to continue where KH2 left off, and Sora and Kairi are either going to get together, or grow much closer in that non explicit way that KH2 gave us. In the world of KH, that's fine. Sora being all obsessed and worried about Kairi and thinking about her during any romantic sequence, that stuff only happened a few weeks ago in-universe time. The issue is that in our world, over a decade has passed and we've lost interest.

Sorry for any typos, I'm on mobile babyy

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

lmfao

This is so 100% about rikus feelings for sora and i have been blessed thank you utada

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Looks good to me. This is honestly how I see it as well, all of my posts aside. SoKai is clearly end-game but there has been a lot more going on in the series without Kairi that makes it hard to imagine how they could pick that up without it just feeling off. We’ve gotten so much amazing development between so many other characters while their relationship has stagnated in real-time for fans.

But there just is so much more depth to Sora and Riku’s relationship which is hard to reconcile with as somebody whose most important relationships, friendships and romantic ones, have been based on similar traits.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

i do want to see xion,roxas and lea/axel friendship grow with namime more in kh3 but you know sad though the wayfinder trio wont get deleopment in kh3 and they are the sad trio

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

The full song is nice. Like Spockanort I think it's my favorite out of three.

As for the shipping, well I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole :p

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Are we seriously talking DDD though when that's the only game in the series that ended with credits which literally include every romantic relationship ever in the franchise and Disney lore.

It's how people knew that in KH Cloud and Aerith was canon, cause they were included with the likes of Aladdin/Jasmine, Cinderella/her prince, Snow White/her prince, Beast/Belle, Simba/Nala, Mulan/Shang, etc. In the credits the clear KH pairings shown were Sora/Kairi and Roxas/Namine.

That's a pretty big deal IMO. But I don't ship in Kingdom Hearts whatsoever I just adore the games and the relationships all around, but it's always been a no brainer to me that it would always be Sora and Kairi .

Other stuff to add, BBS was obviously gonna show only Sora and Riku together as kids because Kairi had not made it to Destiny Islands yet, she was still in Radiant Garden with her grandma. As they showed in the game.

And they put more focus on Sora and Riku's relationship because Riku became a playable character unlike Kairi, but she was the secret movie of DDD which clearly meant Nomura had big plans for her going forward.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Are we talking ships now?

I strongly believe Sora and Kairi will end up as a couple, mainly because it's the most traditional Disney thing to do. I'm fine with that. This series never put much focus on romance outside of the Disney lore, so almost any pairing is bound to feel a bit forced and tacked on for the sake of having one.

That being said, I can also see why people are shipping Sora and Riku. Although if anything I see that more as being one-sided, with Riku possibly having a crush on Sora, who is just totally oblivious to it and mistakes it for platonic love. And I think this is an issue with any pairing that involves Sora actually. Kairi and Riku are the ones who seem to have romantic interests, whereas Sora still comes off as a naive kid at heart who puts friendship above all else and doesn't care about something as "grown up" as romance.

The only pairing that makes some sense to me is Roxas and Axel. They're the only ones with some actual chemistry. But Disney won't go there. And that's fine, I guess. As long as they don't pair Roxas with someone else like Naminé just because they feel obliged to for the sake of optics.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

They showed Roxas in the couples credits of DDD with Namine so that seemed as obvious as Sora and Kairi. Along with the ending of KH 2 made it kind of clear as well.

Kairi and Riku are the ones who seem to have romantic interests, whereas Sora still comes off as a naive kid at heart who puts friendship above all else and doesn't care about something as "grown up" as romance

Eh Sora has made his feelings about Kairi pretty clear to everyone around him. Donald and Goofy bring it up many times, TNBC world at the end was a big one. One of the first scenes in the series is Sora drawing a picture of him giving Kairi the paopu fruit. Then there's the importance of Kairi's lucky charm to Sora in KH2.

But again I can see why people ship Soriku absolutely, it's just never been even a thought in my mind Disney would actually go there. I know they never will.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Disney didn't think people would ship their biggest mascot with an 'anime' character, yet MickeyRiku is my favourite ship in the entire series so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I adore Mickey and Riku's relationship. :) It's touching how much Mickey cares and looks after Riku.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

MickeyRiku is so awesome as a ship espically the line they said in chain of memories

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Which is just a stupid pairing with no actual substance to it. They're being paired just because it's what people expect, even if there's really nothing there. No one in their right mind can argue that Roxas has shown more interest in Namine than Axel. I don't disagree with you that Disney lacks the balls to "go there". But I would definitely prefer for Roxas to not end up with anyone if it's not Axel. There is no good reason to pair him with anyone else.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I feel like the reason for Roxas and Namine is they're the Nobody's of Sora and Kairi. I think that's there reasoning behind it. I agree with you, they don't have substance, but being included with the rest of Disney Royalty is a pretty big deal.

It's why Cloud and Aerith shippers celebrated when the credits for DDD were leaked, because they felt validated in knowing Aerith was Cloud's "true love" even when she died in FF7.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Except that's not true for the FFVII canon, where Cloud and Tifa clearly end up as the official pairing (and is the only one that makes sense, when you really think about it).

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

See, I went into Days thinking "Finally! I'll understand all the Akuroku!" only to come out of it thinking Axel was an awkward big brother who was way too overwhelmed with taking care of two kids in his care. But that's just me. I don't care who ships what unless they're lying about canon and that happens a lot in regard to discrediting Sokai.

In that 13 years, we've seen Sora and Riku as kids, Sora and Riku as data, and the undeniably gay KHDDD. Someone at SE is a SoRiku shipper and has put in work to get certain scenes in the games, and in lieu of Kairi's decade long absence from the series, it's hard to ignore Sora and Riku's thing.

It also is a fact that KH1 was focused around Kairi and how Sora and Riku basically started their fight about her (among other reasons), how Sora keeps fantasizing about Kairi in the entirety of KH2, how CoM established Kairi being his most precious person and Days supporting it by making Xion look like Kairi. And BBS had Blank Points which focuses on how Sora basically asks for Kairi's approval to start his journey again. He would have gone anyway without a doubt, but he had to at least talk to her and he was visibly relieved when she did approve. Nomura sucks at writing couples/women and is better at writing male friendships, it's obvious in how he pushes Aqua to the sidelines and focuses on the friendship of Terra and Ven instead.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Well yes because Aerith died. But in KH Aerith is not dead, so that's what I mean.

Cloud and Aerith was set up as the romance in FF7, it's why the gut punch of Aerith dying is as iconic as it is. Even the gameplay mechanics support this, the whole "dating" thing you can do in the game. Aerith is always set up with the most points at the end to date.

I'm not disputing with you what happened in the end, just what was the set up.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I feel like most of all, none of the relationships in KH portray actual romance. It's all friendship at best. Any romantic pairing is bound to feel forced, because in this world you apparently can't live a happily ever after if you remain single by the time the end credits roll.

Again, I think all relationships are friendship at best (including Sora and Kairi). But going by the very shallow standards for what apparently constitutes a romantic pairing in the KH universe, out of all the relationships shownRoxas and Axel still have the most chemistry by far.

Pairing Roxas with Namine just because their whole sleves are an item feels incredibly forced and backwards. I'm glad that actual Disney movies have moved away from that, and that we can have characters like Elsa who don't need to find a man to make her happy by the end of the movie.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'm glad that actual Disney movies have moved away from that, and that we can have characters like Elsa who don't need to find a man to make her happy by the end of the movie.

That's probably changing in the sequel.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

But KH Cloud and KH Aerith aren't the same characters. From what I recall, KH Aerith does not even recall KH Zack. Same applies to Dissidia, which is also its own canon separate from the original games.

And if you want to talk about the actual FFVII canon, Aerith never got to know the real Cloud and he never got to know Aerith as himself. By the time Cloud regained his true memories and self-identity, which he had Tifa to thank for (and he acknowledges she was the only one who could have done it), he also remembers the feelings he had and still has for her. It's why he tried to become a SOLDIER in the first place, to impress her. Aerith was just a bump on the way, who seemed far more interested in him (mainly because he reminded her of Zack), than he was in her. The way he recalls her later on is not as the love of his life (that would be Tifa), but as a dear friend that he and the rest of the group has lost.



If it does, I hope she turns out to be lesbian (as rumoured).

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I feel like for them to be more convincing, they'd have to get more than 15 minutes together.





Roxas is 14-15 and Axel/Lea is at least 25. Not to mention, the huge power gap between Roxas and Axel that Axel exploited and abused. Absolutely not.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Do we know when the english version of the theme, or album, will release? :)

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

No word on that I think, but Utada hasn't released an English album since This is the One (in 2009). I think she'd probably release it as a single around the time KH3 releases, hopefully soon.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Technically speaking Roxas is not even five years old. The entire process in which nobodies age is poorly explained. Physical apperance aside, Axel is not that old and he doesn't suddenly become a man who's lived for 25+ years when his original self is restored as Lea didn't exist for many years. But my point was that no pairing actually has any romantic chemistry to begin with, so any shipping is simply reaching, yet if you're looking at what's available then Roxas and Axel sure has more to build on than any other couple. And I'll also add that if we're going purely on physical appearance, I don't find Roxas x Axel any worse than Snow x Serah.

So to sum it all up; at the end of the day there hasn't been enough romance to actually warrant any pairings by the end of KH3. Any pairing will feel forced and tacked on. Whatever's going on between Sora and Kairi is really superficial and secondary to the theme of friendship that's been constant throughout the series.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Right!? I think its just about everything tbh. An Oath to be there for eachother since this is the final battle for the saga. That too and Utada's songs for the series havent always entirely been about the plot just was for thematic purposes

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

What's poorly explained about it? From what we've seen nobodies seem to age at the same rate as humans. There is a clear age difference from the organization members and their human selfs we see in BBS.

And yeah I agree with raccooncity, I don't care for shipping children with adults.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Nomura's said (after Days but before BBS) that Nobodies don't age because they have no hearts, but when BBS came out, Lea, Isa, and Ienzo were clearly children and teens. It's even more muddled because of DDD saying that, yes, they can regrow hearts, which begs the question: do they continue aging when they get hearts?

I think that's where the confusion lays, but this is one of the times where "Don't hold Nomura's words as gospel" is true, because the games themselves never state this iirc, and clearly is not the case anymore.



I wasn't talking about their physical appearance at all.

"Technical" age aside, Roxas is 14-15 because that's the age Sora was, that's his mental age and how he acts. Lea-Axel-Lea are one continuous being (they retain the same memories and desires). He was 15 in BBS and looks like Axel (not BBS Lea) when he wakes up.

If you still want to believe the "Nobodies don't age" thing, that's only talking about physical age. Cognitively, Axel is at least 25. Cognitively, Roxas is 14 and lacks basic fundamental knowledge about himself and the world.

And that's still not addressing how Axel treated Roxas throughout all of Days and KH2.

But my point was that no pairing actually has any romantic chemistry to begin with, so any shipping is simply reaching, yet if you're looking at what's available then Roxas and Axel sure has more to build on than any other couple.

Sora and Riku == Best friends since they were kids, were rivals for a long time, Riku got jealous because Sora got new friends, Riku spent a year trying to get Sora to wake up and was too ashamed to see him again, Sora falls to his knees crying when he sees Riku again, Sora and Riku admit they were jealous of each other and are glad they can be each other's friend, Sora promises Aqua to save Riku if he goes down a dark path, Riku thinks about Sora and how Sora has his back at the end of every world in DDD, the song they create together is "Dearly Beloved" and "Passion" was written about their reunion.

Sora and Kairi == Best friends since they were kids, Kairi gave him her wayfinder twice, Sora says several times over the course of KH1 and KH2 that there's stuff he wants to tell Kairi/show her, he sees Jack/Sally dancing and imagines him and Kairi, Donald/Goofy tease Sora for his crush on Kairi, As kids they drew pictures of each other and added paopu to it, she cries when she sees it because she's devastated that he's gone, Sora turns himself into a Heartless to save Kairi and is saved by her light, Sora's memories of Kairi were so strong that it shaped Xion's appearance, Namine uses the basis of his memories/feelings for Kairi to manipulate him, Sora calls Kairi his light and his most special person, Kairi was able to remember Sora when no one else did, Kairi mentions several times how she's sick of seeing Sora/Riku get hurt when she's on the sidelines and that's why she wants to fight, Kairi says Sora's smile will save the world.

Roxas and Xion == Become best friends and grew hearts because of their friendship with each other and Axel, Bonded because they were the only Nobodies without memories, vaguely connected because of they remembered Sora's memories (specifically sitting on the pier with Kairi watching the sunset), Roxas spent most of his time in the Organization either worried about Xion or wondering what was going on with himself, Xion visited Destiny Islands and kept thinking about how much Roxas would've liked it, Xion collected sea shells and kept it by his head until he woke up, sacrificed herself to save Sora and Roxas, spoke to Riku to stop Roxas from going on a suicide mission to destroy the Organization.

Roxas and Axel == They had ice cream together everyday with Xion, Axel lied and hid information from Roxas, Axel took advantage of Roxas's lack of knowledge and trust in him, Roxas ran away from the Organization because he was sick of everyone (especially Axel) mistreating him and Xion, Axel was willing to kill Roxas in KH2 because he wouldn't go back with him.

But that's not "reaching". How exactly are you defining "romantic chemistry"? Just having a well defined dynamic doesn't mean they have to be romantically interested in each other.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

On the whole "there's no romance in any relationship":

"A Paopu fruit..."
"If two people share one, their destinies become intertwined. And one becomes part of the other's life, no matter what happens. Come on, I knwo you want to try it!" Riku to Sora, end of the first day.

"I get to share a Paopu with Kairi. Deal? The winner gets to share a Paopu with Kairi." Still Riku, second day before the race. (Apparently, I'm not supposed to take these lines and the way he said them as a proof that the 15 years old pubescent boy was trying to slide into the 14 years old redhead's DMs. Or the fact that he sold his soul to the devil to get her back later on. But I digress.)

"Hey Sora, have you heard about the legendary power of the Paopu fruit? They say, if you share it with someone you really care for, you'll bound to be together for ever and ever. For eternity! Ahhh, it's so romantic. I gotta try it sometimes!" - Selphie, first line of dialogue on the second day.

"If you don't share a Paopu with Kairi, Riku'll beat you up on it." Still Selphie, if you keep talking to her (I'm translating on the fly from the italian version, in case I messed up some words.)


Given I will never accept "oh, it's just another way to express deep friendship!" as an answer for I'd say pretty obvious reasons, the Paopu used to be romance incarnated literally by definition.
"Used to be" because BbS will describe that same fruit but by saying it represents everlasting friendship and unbreakable connections and is indeed used to try and cement TAV's friendship, and I believe that was a huge help in making people metabolyze the concept that KH is a no-romance zone, when the first chapter basically opened with romance.
Back when, it should be noted, on the writing team was also Kazushige Nojima, a man specifically acclaimed for his writing talent especially on the romantic side, and would you look at that he was involved with KH1 and CoM, the two most straight(pun not intended)forward games on this subject.

I clearly have my own perception on the ships (SoKai, and for how strong it connected with me when it was showcased I'll hardly ever feel like it's "unearned"), but there's no reason to get defensive like some have. I think discussing ships and romance can be a wonderful thing and I had a lot of fun discussing with others who had completely different ideas, and it doesn't have to be a minefield every time.

Absolutely, and yet I while ago with racconscity herself I believe we found out Nomura at one point acted like Xemnas isn't supposed to be an aged up Terra or something like that.
Which makes no sense whatsoever, he's clearly a grown man in his prime while Terra was barely a young adult.

EDIT: ok yeah, beaten to it. Took a while writing this post haha.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Resisting the temptation to spoil myself on this song is exasperating. Thank you goldpanner for the translation! From the looks of it I'm going to break. This is OK. :)

Agreed with everything you said.

1) Romance in KH should not be made explicit imo. I prefer ambiguity because it maintains the overarching theme of the series as being unbreakable bonds between people which don't need to be rated or given preference based on questions of platonic vs romantic intentions.

2) That said, I'm personally not going to sit quietly for SoKai and every other heterosexual crack pairing to get validated while all the queer romance that has been consistently developed using the same (admittedly vague) or even superior framework as SoKai gets shoved back into the closet. I don't care where SE and Disney are as companies with representation, they need to do better and there's no time like the present. If they can't or won't carry through on these narrative threads, refer to point 1. Confirm nothing, preserve the trinities.

3) Axel/Roxas is a great romance, I get why it skeeves people out but I don't agree that it's more problematic than tasking a bunch of young kids with saving the world and fighting in a literal war. You could make the argument that Sora is a child soldier but nobody will because we've sanitized themes of violence in fantasy so shows like Naruto can show kids getting trained through brutal ritualistic combat to become assassins with no questions asked and even cheers from the audience, but romance and sexuality are still viewed through a puritanical lens of being inherently unhealthy and wrong unless exercised with some kind of extreme caution following strict standards of conduct, which is exactly the kind of mentality that feeds back into this mentality that "you can't have gay stuff in a Disney cartoon!" because kids will be scarred or whatever.

I mean, great example of this: Axel *an adult character* kidnaps Kairi *a fifteen year old* in KH2, and that's basically going to be brushed over with no fanfare at all in KH3. Because it wasn't a sexual advance, just a violent assault on her agency as a person, so we can all accept that it's basically forgivable, amirite?

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Not to mention that Selphie even says that the legend is so romantic, right before Riku teases Sora about sharing one with her, and he draws the paopu fruit on their cave drawing.

And, even though it wasn't about the paopu but rather Kairi just sharing her story, Olette also comments that it's romantic.

"Used to be" because BbS will describe that same fruit but by saying it represents everlasting friendship and unbreakable connections and is indeed used to try and cement TAV's friendship, and I believe that was a huge help in making people metabolyze the concept that KH is a no-romance zone, when the first chapter basically opened with romance.

I personally don't understand why it can't be both and have different meanings for different people. For Sora and Kairi, it's definitely treated as something romantic. With the BBS trio, it's about their friendship. Different people can contextualize the legend for how they view it or for the people it involves.

Just because friendship is a heavy theme in the series doesn't mean there can't also be romance. Just because there's romance doesn't mean it has to be more important than friendships.



Because kids are not going to be put into a situation where they will become child soldiers and having fantasy elements like magic or magic keys causes a suspension of disbelief. Kids want to see other kids saving the world(s). Kids like superheroes because it teaches them that they can make a difference in the world and save people.

But sexual abuse/emotional abuse/pedophila/CSA is a very real issue that affects people, so you don't want to romanticize or normalize that. There's huge movements going on right now relating to sexual harrassment and consent because generations of men have been taught that that behavior is okay if you don't get caught, or that women shouldn't speak up or it's their fault.

Not putting gay characters in cartoons or media is a separate issue. It's specifically because they don't want it normalized for kids. But the same principle applies, that media has an effect on how people think and contextualize the world.

And yeah, they could do more to talk about how ethical it is to have Sora be a child soldier, and they should handle the Lea/Kairi situation better, but one wrong (or several wrongs) doesn't mean you can just keep piling mistakes on top of each other.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Olette, coming from behind with the assist.
One day I'll bother remember something one of the HPO trio said.





It doesn't have to be more important, no, but at least separated I feel like.

Like, there's totally a legit in-canon explanation for the different Paopu lore even just in Aqua quoting something she read in a book about a distant planet she never visited before, so what she read might've been different enough to give her an idea of friendship.
Problem lies in the real world, where people have sometimes troubles separating friendship from romance and/or they make a huge deal about separating the two: KH is but one of many examples of people who just can't bear conceiving romance as friendship or viceversa.

I have no problem with the sheer concept of BbS talking differently about the Paopu, didn't even notice for years, but I feel like its implications with the fandom didn't help. Not necessarily referring to anyone on this thread yet, but many just go ballistic and gun down any possible romance conversation by shouting "there was never any romance in KH, it would ruin the theme of friendship which was and will forever be the only theme!" which can be just as obnoxious as people getting all uppity if you don't immediately ship SoKai or AkuRoku.
Is this more an issue with the people than within the games? Yeah, pretty much.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

You know I'm not sure if Nomura can end this without angering a part of the fanbase. Even if he did an open ending I'm sure it would upset people because a ship wasn't canon at the end.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I know plenty of people will be fine without having a canon romance. Like, SoRiku isn't canon (and technically SoKai, too) right now, but people are perfectly fine with curating their own content.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Within fantasy, one can create suspension of disbelief surrounding anything by removing it sufficiently from a real-world context; ultimately this issue is about symbols and how they're internalized through implication rather than literal application, so I wouldn't say that showing children engaging in violence on the scale of all-out warfare and romanticizing that as heroic should get a pass just because it isn't likely to happen in the most privileged sectors of society, which in and of itself constitutes a really limited and prejudicial framework. Violence involving children is often a huge factor at play in poor communities and communities of color which are beset with police brutality usually justified using the moniker of drug or gang warfare and there are entire areas of the world where children are being drawn into war conflicts perpetuated by the same moral powers which hypocritically condemn the use of child soldiers as uncivilized. So I think that the desensitization of people to the issue of children dying in violent conflict and the way that has been made into a safe fantasy is a relevant concern.

But my point was moreso that I feel we've reversed our expectations of media in that I really see sex as being no big deal unless and until it is paired with violence, and general audiences have instead been trained to view violence as no big deal unless and until it is paired with sex. The reason we have the #metoo movement and similar conversations coming about is because of how sex has been weaponized against PoC and women for centuries, but it's the fundamentally violent/conflicting power dynamics between privileged and disadvantaged groups of people which is at stake and sexuality has just been co-opted and scapegoated as the symbol at the center of that conflict. One could also use money, property, even healthcare access as the entry points into that conversation, but sex is more sensational and rings true to generations upon generations of people who have internalized the notion that their and others' sexuality is basically toxic and there needs to be some social rule book governing how people fantasize and relate to one another sexually because it will otherwise inevitably turn violent and abusive, because our sexuality somehow represents the worst and most base parts of who we are.

Queer communities have had to push back against this kind of presupposition for decades and longer, which has been used to categorically deny social access to groups of people who are deemed to exist in contempt of that social rule book, which has been an arbitrary standard from the beginning. I imagine that's a large part of why queer fiction is so prone to push at these boundaries and explicitly examine the kinds of ideas that run contrary to commonly held notions of what is healthy; sometimes it isn't about romanticizing or normalizing anything, but acknowledging that there is no inclusive romantic norm that can explain the spectrum on which human desire exists. See Call Me by Your Name.

Basically, I would defend AkuRoku not as "healthy," but as a nevertheless natural outcome which makes sense given their specific relational dynamic.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

So we talking ships? Because y'all ain't talkin bout the best one.


edit: ok seriously I saw this thread and expected discussion about the lyrics and instead I was greeted with a whole lotta ship talk like what the diddly

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

But my point was moreso that I feel we've reversed our expectations of media in that I really see sex as being no big deal unless and until it is paired with violence, and general audiences have instead been trained to view violence as no big deal unless and until it is paired with sex. The reason we have the #metoo movement and similar conversations coming about is because of how sex has been weaponized against PoC and women for centuries... who have internalized the notion that their and others' sexuality is basically toxic and there needs to be some social rule book governing how people fantasize and relate to one another sexually because it will otherwise inevitably turn violent and abusive, because our sexuality somehow represents the worst and most base parts of who we are.

Just because there's not violence along with sex or romance, doesn't mean there aren't issues and trauma.

But again, if there wasn't an issue with people shipping this, then there wouldn't be thousands of CSA and rape victims saying that they don't want people to fantasize or ship or make content of something that actually has hurt and affected them.

Also, pedophilia isn't a sexuality, so I wouldn't compare shipping gay characters together with the idea of shipping children with adults.

Basically, I would defend AkuRoku not as "healthy," but as a nevertheless natural outcome which makes sense given their specific relational dynamic.

Yet it also perpetuates the idea that gay men are pedophiles and will target and prey on children that don't know any better, which is part of the outrage behind Kevin Spacey coming out when he had allegations against him.

Even so, there's no indication as it is that AkuRoku was ever intended to be a romance. There's no reason to say it's a "natural outcome" of anything just because they were friends.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'm gonna quote myself from the Riku FC here

edit: ok seriously I saw this thread and expected discussion about the lyrics and instead I was greeted with a whole lotta ship talk like what the diddly

Welcome to the Kingdom Hearts fandom, where the mention of romance will start a shipping war

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

i dont like this scene it give that riku riku find in her inner peace and dies i dont know

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Should have never listened to this at work.

Should have never listened to this at work.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Srsly this thread really derailed. I think that this whole ship war needs to be toned down a bit. You can ship whoever you want together, but when it comes down to it, excluding the mild SoKai hinted at in 1 and 2, canon romance is pretty much non-existent. (I mean, Roxas outright said Kairi was that girl Sora liked. No matter who we want to ship, that's about as close to romantic suggestion as this series got). Kingdom Hearts is about the power of friendship and the connections between people. It's about being willing to risk everything for those you care about, platonic or not. Trying to pair off characters is purely a hobby of the fans, who scrutinize the games looking for a comment or an action or anything to try and support their ship. I'm not going to deny that I have some characters that I think are practically meant for each other, but it's simply my opinion. It's pointless to try and argue any ship when they simply don't canonically exist as of now, and it's detracting from the actual subject of this thread.

We should be talking about Utada's amazing new song that I have been listening to nonstop since last night. Initially I was thinking this sounded more like an after battle version, but now that I've heard the whole thing I changed my mind. It feels melancholy and sad but hopeful, and like a perfect conclusion to the impending end of this arc, and I love it!!!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I agree with the sentiment that survivors need to be heard and understood and have no interest in endangering that process, so I'll leave it at that.


That's simply a possible projection which would speak to the reader's internalized homophobia more than to anything present in the text. Advocating the notion that we can't examine queer relationships outside of the sanitized sectors permitted by hetero society or else queer communities will be labeled as dangerous and predatory is inherently homophobic.


And which is why it's incredibly important to draw a fast and hard line between the way AkuRoku is framed in this fictional narrative and the actual consequences of what Kevin Spacey did, because playing into the kind of queer hysteria conservative elements of society are always trying to drum up is the opposite of a constructive approach to this issue.


It's probably more tenuous than Sora/Riku but I'd say it's far more believable and easy to invest in than Sora/Kairi from a narrative and poetic standpoint. But, again, my preference is no romance at all; I'm just extremely concerned that if the romance element is confirmed, it's going to devolve into another het pairing game between random characters who have barely even talked at all because, "he was a boy, she was a girl, could I make it any more obvious."

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I pity the staff when KH3 comes out and this place becomes a real zoo. There are going to be so many asspulls in this game and y all better be ready and ditch the pitchforks.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Isn't the point of representation to show not only queer individuals queer characters but also to show those who are weary of the topic that we're not that bad after all?
Having a pairing that is pedophelia on top of them being gay will have more of a negative effect on the LGBTQ community than good, because it would support the idea some people have that gay people are pedophiles and predators.

With your comment about this being homophobic, how is it homophobic to say that having a certain will be labeled as "dangerous or predatory?"
It is literally a prediction of a very likley outcome from a choice that may be made from a corporation. As much as you may not like it, people from all communities play Kingdom Hearts and their opinions matter as much as ours. Especially from a business standpoint. Having certain ships could very much be committing corporate suicide.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

This is easily in the same league as Hikari and Passion. I've been listening to it all day. I'm so excited for the future of this franchise after KH3.

I hope Utada continues to bless us with theme songs for as long as the series continues.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

i odnt know if she will contuine on with the franchise after becasuse i think she doesnt want english version of the song this might be her last

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

So is this the thread about Oath or LGBTQ, taking about the dartboard that is Sora and Riku or Axel and Roxas and homophobic talk because I like to talk about Oath please?

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Utada’s feelings on songwriting in 2006 will be much different from her feelings on songwriting in 2018. We won’t know what her feelings on the process are right now until she does an interview about it again.



I’ll probably just sip tea like I am now and watch on without bothering to interfere xD

I said my piece. The fact that these emotionally-driven discussions are sparked so easily only means there is an underlying desire to discuss this stuff, whatever it may be. I’m more than happy to present a catalyst for it like the shit-starter I am apparently. *rolls eyes at Dandelion*

But really, it will probably be okay. I don’t think there will be any fires to put out unless some favorites are killed.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Hi, I’m here to say people can talk about whatever they want. You can go right on ahead and talk about Oath without backseating.

Thanks!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Honestly, one way to look at how Sora acts with Kairi and Riku is to think that he is bisexual. It could easily explain the whole situation. Or that the three are in a polyamorous relationship. Though I don't think either company would have the backbone to do that.

Though I do have many ships, I don't want any to become canon. It is nice to have open romantic undertones but I have always found that the first and foremost theme is friendship. Having any ship become canon would always make one side of the fandom unhappy. And that can lead to fighting and bragging (For the side that wins).

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Ok. Real talk.
I feel like after an initial "uproar" this thread has been very chill while talking about ships, and didn't really turn into a war zone at all.
So I don't quite get people advocating to stop a shipping war that didn't even happen to begin with.

See, this is why I push for discussing about it in a civil manner: I don't think it's healthy for people to just keep being holed up in fan clubs (no offense to fan clubs, they're merely a fun place to be, I'm talking about certain mindsets) where you just echo your own tastes and then it's a phobia whenever people discuss the subject of romance, which love it or hate does matter to many fans, on a broader scale with actual different takes and opinions.
People, it's not automatically shipping war just because shipping is being talked about. And it isn't necessarily bad to talk about it (I understand wanting to discuss more about the actual song, I personally didn't listen to it either because of spoilers and I'm not a music expert anyways, so I can only contribute by talking about the song's themes).

EDIT:

[FONT=Verdana]

Alternatively, this too.[/FONT]

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

The problem with this notion is that queerness will never be "safe" for heteronormative society. This is the same line of thinking that led organizations like the Human Rights Campaign to actively disappear and remove trans people from the image of the community and place the platform of gay marriage first and foremost, because it was decided that was an issue straight people could get behind, and they didn't want to play into the fearful stereotypes of trans people (women, especially) as representative of the "gay man in a dress" who's coming for your kids next. When we play the game of representation using the rules of hetero society, it always ends with us actively damaging the most vulnerable in our own communities.


Which is why it's increasingly important to push back against this homophobic double-standard in fiction. Letting that stereotype stand and dancing around it for fear of what society will say at the same time that classic examples of romantic fiction like "Romeo & Juliet" are routinely celebrated and re-enacted is wrong.


But it isn't corporate suicide for Disney to portray Belle (17) being kidnapped and then falling in love with her kidnapper who is in the form of a beast because it's fiction, or Ariel (16) having her voice ripped from her and trying to seduce an older man and ultimately succeeding because it's fiction, or Snow White (14) falling in love with an older man who makes out with her while she's unconscious because it's fiction and it's ~romantic~.

I'm not buying it.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Pairing Roxas and Xion makes about as much sense as pairing Sora and Roxas. Or pairing Riku with Repliku.

As for the portrayal of "romance" in this series, it's very, very shallow at best. Oh wow, one kid giving another kid a fruit. Not exactly deep.



People are hypocrites. In other news, water is wet.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

That's some understatement, since we know it's not the fruit per se but the legend and symbolism behind the fruit.
That's like saying "Oh wow, a human giving another human a tiny ring to put on a finger. Not exactly deep."

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I had no idea those women were underage teenagers. That said, I'm still not using that as an example to give Roxas x Lea a pass. Plus as others pointed out I always saw Roxas and Lea's relationship as more akin to older and younger brother.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I just think people don't have these conversations very often, but I don't relish the idea of any Disney or KH fan telling me I can't have my cake and eat it too with this ship when they are in the process of supporting a media company with all of its most celebrated cultural roots in "pedophilic" straight romance between young girls who are more often than not victims of circumstance falling into the arms of an adult man they've only just met.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Idk, this is more stimulating than just licking our computer screens over the latest render. We do that all the time, rightfully so.

PLUS, there's no longer an outlet (the Intelligent Discussion subforums) which in some way behooves the forum, because then these topics can be approached with relevance to the latest news. So as long as people are being civil, let it be and stop moaning? This song was obviously going to spark ship chat.

That being said, I do appreciate Utada's song, Goldpanner's translations and the logical conclusion as to why Sora and Riku's relationship as it stands has the more natural foundation for a romantic pairing. I don't ship this series, and we won't get it, but it would be more than deserved. <3

No one is stopping you. You have a platform with every post.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

No, it's like saying "Oh, wow a kid giving another kid a tiny ring to put on a finger".

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Again, not really... I feel like we're ignoring what the act means.

Also I get you're making this about the fact that they're kids, so that makes their romance shallow? Well if that's the case, as someone who has multiple relatives who met the love of their life and started a family when they were 16... not necessarily.
Plus this is a fantasy videogame aimed at a certain public, they had to put characters a certain age. But that doesn't mean the romance needs to be shallow just because they're kids, especially not after the stuff Sora and Riku pulled during the games, such as saving/dooming the Universe, putting their lives on the line for the sake of another person and regaining their entire self through memories of the special one.

It's not exactly as if they're kindergarteners playing house or teenagers saying "yeaaah, I'm totally gonna make out with Kairi at the Paopu Prom, duuude". Kairi shed a tear during the KH1 ending, and it would be reductive to say it was because she saw the picture of a fruit. They were pretty committed, beyond regular "kids".

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Yes, really.

They're kids. I am not denying that they have a strong bond. But it's puppy love at best.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Not really. When a good chunk of media only depicts a certain kind of relationship or characterization of a community, it starts or perpetuates certain stereotypes. Like how many black people in film are often either just angry black men/women, gangster types, or comic relief. And people have every reason to be critical of that, and it's not always just about internalized racism. But people in those groups tend to be more hyper aware of the message something sends when they know it paints them in a bad light and they want to be more humanized or normalized. That's why representation is important, especially when the media is written/stars people in that community.

Internalized homophobia is often a result of having media either not have gay people at all (and therefore they feel alone/different) but also from having what media does exist mostly depict gay people as predatory or pedophiles or generally awful/villainous. Because if someone does realize they're gay, they're going to fear either being seen as that or becoming that.

And which is why it's incredibly important to draw a fast and hard line between the way AkuRoku is framed in this fictional narrative and the actual consequences of what Kevin Spacey did, because playing into the kind of queer hysteria conservative elements of society are always trying to drum up is the opposite of a constructive approach to this issue.

I can see the inherent value in depicting unhealthy relationships as long as the source also makes it known that it's unhealthy and shows it's consequences, but that's not what's going to be done here. They're going to have Lea help bring back Roxas and Xion but then never properly address his actual mistreatment of them. Just like they're doing towards Kairi so far.

Which is why it's increasingly important to push back against this homophobic double-standard in fiction. Letting that stereotype stand and dancing around it for fear of what society will say at the same time that classic examples of romantic fiction like "Romeo & Juliet" are routinely celebrated and re-enacted is wrong.

But why give more reason to paint queer people as predators or pedophiles? Not wanting children to be romantically linked with adults doesn't extend just to the queer community, and is a problem with plenty of heterosexual couples/movies (as you pointed out) as well. We should be critical of that as well. But the difference is that gay representation is more limited and more scrutinized, and it will be noticed and discussed more.

The thing is, the "man in a dress" stereotype for trans women is used to mock/insult, but there's nothing inherently wrong or harmful with a cis man wearing a dress or trans women. But when talking about CSA and pedophilia, there are actual victims. It's not all about how conservatives or heteronormative society sees and reacts to this, but how the actual queer community sees it as well. And many people want to see happy, healthy relationships and not just having more "bury your gays" stories or seeing more pedophilic/abusive relationships between gay couples. Many people in the queer community have said that they do not want to support media that depicts these relationships partially because of the stereotype and their own feelings/experiences, but also to what is says to queer CSA and abuse victims, as well.



That doesn't make anything less meaningful about their relationship. If it's just first love or puppy love, then so what? It certainly means something to them.

But if you're playing the "they're kids so it's just puppy love" card... I again repeat, that Roxas is a kid, too, so you can't turn around and say that any possible chemistry with Axel is somehow more meaningful when he's the same age as Sora, and has known Axel for one year and Sora/Riku/Kairi have known each other most of their lives.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

But again, my general point is that the main theme of this series has been friendship and that all portrayal of actual romance has been very shallow. If you think the relationship between Sora and Kairi has been portrayed as something deep, then uh... you must have a very limited experience with romance in fiction. It's light weight even by Disney standards. I'm not saying it has to be anything deep either, but all I'm saying is that romance in KH is an afterthought (whereas friendship isn't).

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

That's fine and the series has stepped off of actual romance for a while now, but with friendship as the focus, the romance doesn't need to be super deep, but that doesn't mean it should be avoided altogether (if it even happens, which is fine either way).

Even with a SoKai or SoRiku romance, the basis of that romance would stem from their friendship and they have other platonic friendships as well. The presence or lack of romance doesn't and shouldn't change the quality or meaning of the friendships.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

People gotta stop trying to turn everyone gay... Sora and Riku care for each other deeply LIKE BROTHERS. I feel that kind of deep emotion for my best friends since I never had brothers. It's nothing more than platonic love. This is why I HATE shipping because it twists every character into an orgy of odd pairings that will never happen.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'd be curious to know what consitutes to you as deep romance.
I certainly don't see people willing to tie their destinies together for all eternity or fighting demons with a toy sword for a special person's sake as lightweight or an afterthought.
Heck, the scene where Sora goes dogeza in front of Saix just to prove how much Kairi matters to him seems pretty mature to me, definitely more than Disney's "eh, a kiss will do it" shtick.

I think the games up to KH II went ways to portray what Sora and Kairi have as deep and not a summer crush. The execution might've been lacking here and there, but aformentioned scenes or the moment when it's only thanks to their bond that a bridge to the Organization's Castle is made (or even when by reading Kairi's letter the Door to the Light appears to Sora) should make the intention behind them pretty clear.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Obviously real-life cases of CSA outweigh cartoon romance in terms of precedence and I don't really want to fall into the trap of arguing against that, so I'll just say this as my last piece:

Media can absolutely misrepresent people and romance of any demographic and accidentally or deliberately reinforce damaging stereotypes, tropes, and social messaging. I'm not convinced that the relationship between Axel and Roxas as depicted, even if read romantically against all odds, represents that kind of threat (quite the contrary), and I don't think that casting blanket judgements about how fiction ought to be coded in order to make it "safe" is constructive, although I realize we all have our thresholds for tolerance (at least, I certainly have mine). I do think it's a huge double standard to argue that one can support a game series that includes romantic pairings like Belle and Beast or Snow White and Florian or Mulan and Li Shang, but that a queer romantic coupling along the same vein would constitute pedophilia and is somehow a no-go zone. Especially when we all know that if this game had been made by Disney as an animated musical in the early '90s, Kairi and Lea would have been the central romance, because she's just young and vulnerable enough to stand in as a proper Disney Princess and he's just old and kidnapp-y enough to be her Prince. Y'all can make of that contradiction what you want.

This is why you shouldn't do romance Nomura.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

it never occur to until now but Are you really okay with someone like me?Really, really? I don't want to let you get your hopes up about me even though sound like riku saying honsestly sound like kairi is saying to sora if we go back what sora said in kh2 to kairi in the world that never was your a different kairi plus if go to what nomura said about the trio at the end "

{Kingdom Hearts is] not too realistic, but I do want my players to grasp a sense of reality from it as well," Nomura said. "For example, I'm sure you had friends when you were young, a good group of friends, but as you grow older things change and it doesn't always stay the same. I think all I can say is please play to the very end and see what happens. But I think [Kingdom Hearts 3] does depict how each character feels about each other in this new storyline."

not to metion that one quote at the end of the recap video

"The coming battle is unlike anything we have faced so far... This charm will make sure we won't be separated again."

i belive this sora talking to kairi there friendship is changing in kh3 it becoming something more i beleive

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

No offense, but I think you are pulling something out of nothing in order to make an argument. Kairi and Lea would never have become a cannon romance, regardless of the time or format of KH. The series has made subtle hints twords Sora and Kairi being a potential pairing since the beginning. If we were to keep the same plot and exposition but make it a Disney musical, they would have very likley been the cannon romamce.

Many Disney fairytales take place in a time where there was often forced marriages or normal marriages of a massive age difference. They key here is fairytale, they are retellings of old stories that take place in older times. From there it is up for the parents of the child to further expand on subjects like age difference or actions of characters to teach their child values and morals.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

But Kairi has never had nor been shown to have any doubts about how Sora would feel about being around her. When Sora says she's changed, she easily rolls with it and seems flattered by the comment. I'm sure if Kairi were an autonomous being and not a character limited by how much we are shown of her by the games, she would have doubts and fears that we could potentially read into but there aren't any.

Perhaps KH3 will explore her own doubts and insecurities that she kind of desperately needs in order to give her character more depth, but at the end of the day I just don't feel like this song represents Kairi as we know her right now.

Lines like these more easily call to Riku's character:

"Are you really okay with someone like me?
Really, really? I don't want to let you get your hopes up about me"

Which represent Riku's insecurities that have plagued him for years. He still feels guilty about the things he did, but he has also used those things to move forward and become a better person.

"I can't go back to my old liar self"

Riku used to constantly lie to himself about his motivations, about his feelings, about the darkness that grew inside of him. The first thing that this calls back to is Mickey's line about how Riku's eyes couldn't lie. He would cover his eyes to suppress the darkness that was growing inside of him everyday.

"I just suddenly remember the old days (ah I want to cry)
the light shining through the opened door"

Riku as a child o the island. Riku walking through the door to the light in KH2, watching the door close in KH1...

"Let's listen to the sound of the sunrise with our shoulders touching"

We've had Sora and Riku staring out at the sunset together, Sora and Riku staring at the night sky, but we haven't gotten a scene of them watching the sunrise. Also dawn has been Riku's thing since CoM. It's so poetic it is gross.

Of course, lyrics are subject to interpretation and my interpretation is no more correct than the next person's and they can mean anything to whoever is able to reason the best meaning for them. There are so many lines that could fit Sora and Kairi, albeit a bit less perfectly imo...

Like the sunrise can easily be about Sora and Kairi sitting similar to the scene from KH1, but let's be fair and admit that this had been co-opted by Sora and Riku in KH2 and was succeeded by BBS, and then I won't mention the early key art for KH3D with the two standing as they look out to the dawn.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

The entirety of KH is a fairytale.


Goddangit I haven't even had a chance to listen to this song yet and I'm crying like a chi-i-ild.
/when Riku isn't even your favorite character but Utada writes a song about him.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I do want to reiterate that my problem lays with the pedophilia itself and (while we didn't really discuss this) the abuse/manipulation that Axel treated Roxas and Xion with, and I don't support Axel with Xion or Kairi for the same reasons.

There certainly are discussions about the issues in Disney movies, otherwise there wouldn't be the whole 'stockholm syndrome' thing with BATB to begin with, and I don't think 'it was a different time' is a good excuse at all (the movies aren't historically accurate to begin, nor are they always accurate to the origin, and BATB was written in 1991, so...).

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

the light that comes through the opened door Will surely stay by our side from now on could mean door to light connection that sora had with kairi letter being kairi is door to light and sora is key so to speak as for the "Are you really okay with someone like me? Really, really? I don't want to let you get your hopes up about me" it might fit riku but also fit sora as well i mean if you look xigbar said to sora in the kh3 trailer"Still, Sora. That doesn't mean you should change and don't forgot what kairi in the very beginning of the series sora don't ever change sora scared that if he change that things will be different with the trio

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

But somebody please tell me when Sora and Kairi have lied each other? What liar self does either of them refuse to go back to? The only one who fits the bill of that line is Riku.

I'll get to this in a minute.

But this song definitely represents the relationship between Sora and Kairi to me in quite a few places if you look at the lyrics. I'll reference both the translated and original Japanese but for starters:

Someone else already pointed this out, but the perspective shifts between using 私 and 僕 while this isn't definitive proof of much, it shows that the song does shift between two different people singing it because the personal pronoun changes. The former being used more by females and the later more by males. Granted, Sora doesn't use 僕 but that's probably not too important. All it does is show me this is a song between two people, most likely a boy and a girl.

Second point, is this part of the song:

No more promises Those are for making someone happy What I'm saying now isn't some second hand opinion It's not even a promise, it's an oath

This bit is sung by the male of the two. Now, in the Japanese it specifically mentions 約束 for "promise". This is why i definitely think it is talking about Sora and Kairi. They are the only two who constantly have had a verbal use of 約束 between them over all of the games. (Literally the good luck charm) In KH1 when she gives it to him and says (忘れないで,私がいつでもそばにいること）this is referenced later when they separate at the end of the game. Sora specifically says, hey, about that promise-- I promise I am definitely coming back to you, okay? she seals this promise at him by shouting (約束だよ！) back. So yeah. The good luck charm of theirs literally symbolizes a promise that is not only symbolic but verbally said between the two of them.

Moving on to the next little bit:

I can't go back to my old liar self

A LOT of people were saying this could only refer to Riku. And, as per the quote I have at the top now I am going to address why I don't think this is the case. Again, this is sung by the male singer (same section as above). Now, considering the above promise that Sora made to Kairi, specifically to head back to Destiny Islands to see her again, and then looking towards KH2 we can see that he actually does fail on that promise. Kairi has to find HIM (because of many reasons, but still). When they meet again she specifically explains, yeah, sorry I couldn't wait around any more so I went to go find you. And Sora apologizes. It's obviously quickly forgiven, because it was a bit out of his hands, but he is still in this moment literally apologizing for breaking the previous promise made at the end of the first game, aka lying to her about what he was going to do. And while this might just be one incident, it certainly would qualify because this "liar" line is directly tied to the stuff above about promises.

Finally,

約束でもない 誓いだよ / It's not even a promise, it's an oath

This line, to me, establishes the notion that in the past, Sora and Kairi were making all these promises back and forth but nothing was really solidly definite about their feelings. However, the singer in this part is acknowledging they are going to stop with the promises, because its time to make an oath. This to me is hinting we are going to get something a bit more official here than just the two of them constantly passing a paopu fruit back and forth.

About stuff with Riku, I really don't want to hate on anyones' ship, but the relationship between Sora and Riku has always been, to me, representing of an incredibly strong love that is shared between friends. Because not all love is romantic love and that's okay! That's why it would seem incredibly odd to me for them to start kissing because there haven't been any hints they feel in that way about each other. And it's fine to look at the scenes of brotherhood and see romance in them because, again, strong friendship IS a type of love. Its just...a different type. I mean, you can see this in FFXV too. Those guys really love each other, but it's not like they are gonna all get married and start kissing under the stars. To simplify it to that is almost simplifying human emotions too much.

As per Passion supposedly representing Sora and Riku's reunion: the lyrics of Passion are very different from Sanctuary. To me, Passion is less of a romantic song and more about nostalgia and the love of people from our past. It's singing literally about remembering stuff from childhood and feeling kind of wistful about it and wishing to return to those days, considering all that's happened between then and now. I honestly still complain about how Sanctuary doesn't really feel like the same song to me because it feels like a generic love song and doesn't mention childhood stuff at all.

I think Passion makes a lot more sense being about the group finally coming back together and reflecting on all that happened rather than being a love song in particular.

But hey, that's my five yen thrown into the pile.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Well said! I'm convinced!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'd be fine with Sora saying "I love you" but if Sora and Kairi KISS I'm gonna be SICK because that's my SON and he's NOT READY

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

This is so interesting and really shows just how much people are hyped for KH3.

All day long Hitsekoi has been the #1 song on the Album with Chikai barely getting anything and now within1 hr of it's release worldwide Chikai has jumped to the most popular song on the album. It also has a spot on the Itunes 100 and the album is doing fantastic at #4 an hr after it's release worldwide.

That really is amazing.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Mine, too. It'll never be as iconic as S&C, but I think it's going to end up being my favorite overall.

Btw, is there any way you could link me to a picture of Sora-Riku's joint Keyblade? I never knew there was a Paopu attached. You mentioned a piece of artwork for 3D that has Riku looking out at dawn in one of your other posts, too. I can't remember that picture right off?


If Riku actually were to die (as people keep theorizing as a possibility), I think I would spontaneously combust into a pool of tears--or, rather, the opposite of combust, lol. I wouldn't have it in me to rage about that.

I'm not getting involved with the rest of the discussion over the past 5 pages except to say I agree with alexis.anagram.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Why would Riku Replica come back into the story? As a replacement for when the real Riku dies.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Or likely Riku Replica will die sacrificing for Riku.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I don't exactly recall the one with Rku, but here's the Keyblade. It has a lot of neat details the half versions don't have, but they're hard to see in-game.
Apologies for the resolution.

[SPOILER]
[/SPOILER]

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Thank you so much for this in-depth analysis! It's so interesting to see how many hints there might be from the Japanese text alone. Considering how Utada has been asked to write the song after being told about the series and KH3 specifically, they might have given her a few quotes to work with even if they wanted this kind cross reference hidden in the track. I mean it isn't the first time, seeing how many references Yoko Shimomura manages to add to her tracks.

This would truly make KH3 a masterpiece through and through if even the theme song is so deeply connected to the series. Let's hope the English version stands a chance to this and doesn't go the generic route again.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

This song has turned me into a blubbering weenie.



And I just can't believe ya'll are going on about whether it's SoKairi or SoRiku, when it's plainly obvious this song is about Geppetto and The Seagull Whose Eggs Sora Stole. It's like you guys never even played the games.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I think Spock's referring to this one with Sora and Riku.
Wow, it's wild to think that even the early promotional stuff for DDD now feels like a lifetime ago, much less the earlier games.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I have listened to this song too many times to count by now.....humming to the parts in Japanese and lip-singing to the English parts. Somewhat getting emotional from the power behind Utadas voice.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'm so confused right now lol I'm not a fan of Utada so maybe (probably) I'm missing a lot of information but...

The lyrics from the english version of this exact same song is completely different, isn't it? I mean, we only have 1 and a half minute from the english version... but this is Chikai/Don't think twice, right?

Why is the lyrics from the same song just so different? Is the japanese version the official one? Or it's supposed to be different? Or is this just the album's version, and another one will drop out for KH3 later? :confused:

I understand that for metric reasons, the translation and the final version of the song in english will be different, but even the MEANING of the song, how in the world this

I never cared about stuff like destiny, but This time, I'm forced to acknowledge it Are you really okay with someone like me? Really, really? I don't want to let you get your hopes up about me [COLOR=#222222]

translates its meaning into this?

[FONT=Roboto]How did I live in a Kingdom of Thieves. [/FONT] [FONT=Roboto]And people who say, things they don’t really mean, really mean [/FONT] ohhh [FONT=Roboto]... [/FONT] [FONT=Roboto]You're only everything I ever dreamed, ever dreamed of, ever dreamed of. [/FONT] [FONT=Roboto]You must be kidding me did you really think, I could say [/FONT] noooo [FONT=Roboto]... [/FONT] [FONT=Roboto]I want you for a lifetime, so if you’re gonna think twice, baby. [/FONT] [FONT=Roboto]I don’t wanna know, baby, I don’t wanna know. [/FONT]

so yeah I'm really trying to understand (???)

[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#222222]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[/COLOR]

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

this is why utada doesnt like to english version of her songs

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Generally translating a song into another language doesn't work well. You have to deal with phrasing, timing, and word choice(including rhyming).
It is very easy to lose the meaning a song in translation. While some of the themes will be the same, the English version of Chikai is going to be more vague compared to the Japanese version.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Utada's english versions of her songs aren't literal translations, because as others have told you, you can't just translate the song between languages and expect it to fit.

Utada goes a step further and makes marked differences between the versions of the songs. Sanctuary isn't Passion, and Simple and Clean is so different from Hikari that they have different choruses. Seriously, go give them a listen. Chikai (which means Oath) and Don't Think Twice aren't the same song, even if you just go off of the title. They're just based on the same feelings and concepts.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Do you guys think before release they'll remix Chikai/Don't Think Twice like they did Hikari/Simple and Clean for the opening of the game.

For Hikari and Simple and Clean it was the PlanitB Remix they did that's the opening.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

honsetly i don't know if there going one this time or not

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

We had no idea what KH1 or KH2's themes were even going to do in terms of remixes and versions before those games came out. I remember Passion - After the Battle- being a pleasant surprise to people early on. Let wait and be patient.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I'd be down for no remix, but instead they use the orchestral version of Chikai for the opening. I think it'd be a little more fitting than a remix given that KH3 really needs to open on an "epic" note, similar to KH2 and DDD (but no recap please, we've been there done that). Remixes and club tracks are great, but they lack a certain emotional quality for me; I want to feel the finality of this game right from the beginning.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Oh I see
Thank you for answering me!

I though there was some kind of special reason, but it seems there isn't. And I don't know if I agree with this?

Like, sure, some songs may lose some key words (pun not intended) but changing the whole 'story' from the original song seems too drastic for me.
I mean, I'm from brazil and I talk Portuguese - and every show and movie I've ever watched (specially the musical ones) in both languages (Portuguese and English) did have adaptations to suit the rhyming/metric but it was never drastic like that.

Of course, I don't know Japanese to understand HOW difficult it is to adapt compared to mine, but even then I doubt it would come to a point where they'd think "oh this is really shitty, let's change the whole meaning of the song so we can make things possible"

Probably Utada wanted to change the meaning of every song so it would fit better into KH1 2 3, huh?

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

That's not really it. Utada, who was born in America and speaks both languages perfectly and has written songs in both languages but if she writes something for one language, simply translating it compromises the way she feels about the original work. There is a HUGE difference in the way you can convey something in Japanese as opposed to English. Utada really likes to use the melody to really play with language. For her, the changes have to be made in order to even be okay with the work.

Essentially, it's not about difficulty per say, it's about how she feels about her own creations. She doesn't WANT to make the english versions just straight up translations. That's not what she does. She wants them to be individual works that stand without compromise.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Yay, that's a reaaally really nice explanation and makes complete sense. Also nice to know she speaks both languages perfectly. Thank you.

I wonder if the song in english will have the same ups and downs the japanese version has. That's what I liked the most of this one!

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

It's just the fandom seeing gay where it doesn't exist again. We can't have nice things like friendship anymore. Fandoms always ruin shipping one way or another.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Let me preface this by saying I really have no stake in any ship with this series because I just really dislike romance in general, but are you kidding me? People have provided some well-explained and critical reasons for why they view or interpret certain same-sex friendships in this series to have potential as romance.

Everybody is friends in this series. This is always the default argument people fall to when it comes to "fandoms seeing gay" rather than thinking "maybe these are queer people seeing their own life experiences within a piece of media they enjoy and for them a certain pairing hits all of the checkboxes for what they feel constitutes as potentially romantic."

Friendship is EVERYWHERE. I love friendship stories and all I want is for KH3 to stay a story about friendship with no pairings becoming canon, but please don't toss that kind of nonsense out there when the fact of the matter is that this kind of argument is often employed when it is convenient to shame or put down any argument that deviates from what is perceived as the norm.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

kingdom hearts is always been friendhips and will always i get it soriku is simular to the brothery freinship in xv and that fine with me my problem you cant tell me there some more bettwwen sora and kairi and who know know nomura did say kh3 will tellus how sora,kairi and riku each feel about each other

One thing fans may hope Kingdom Hearts 3 can deliver on is offering a satisfying wrap-up to the friendships that began the franchise — the trio of Sora, Riku, and Kairi. All will obviously feature in the game, Nomura hopes its depiction of their bonds can offer a realistic sense of how friendships evolve and change over time. "{Kingdom Hearts is] not too realistic, but I do want my players to grasp a sense of reality from it as well," Nomura said. "For example, I'm sure you had friends when you were young, a good group of friends, but as you grow older things change and it doesn't always stay the same. I think all I can say is please play to the very end and see what happens. But I think [Kingdom Hearts 3] does depict how each character feels about each other in this new storyline."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/06/14/e3-2018-tetsuya-nomura-on-if-kingdom-hearts-3-is-the-end-of-soras-story

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

So "Chikai" is seriously amazing, I've finally had the chance to spend some quality time with it and my goodness, it does everything right. I won't lie, when I heard there was a rap portion I instinctively thought, "Oh lord please don't be cheesy breezy in my KH3 theme," but it's totally fine and fits the flow of the song. In fact one of the things I love about the track is how it takes on this edge to it after the second verse, it goes from being this kind of drifting melodic piano ballad to something more piercing and emotionally hard, and you get the sense that the speaker is really grappling with something. It isn't just a doting love song (which I would have been fine with), it's poetic and wistful and demands the listener's attention. This definitely feels like the definitive KH theme to me. Move over "Hikari."

I am really excited for DTT now.

Edit: Also it's so unreal to be able to listen to the whole track, I can't be the only one who constantly expects the loop back to the beginning from burning out all those "Oath Extended Version" YouTube videos that played the same sample of the song over and over for 15 minutes. Hearing the song push past that is almost surprising every time.

Also also did I mention how I love the piano; it makes for a really smart classic pop technique, where there's this defining element that carries the track so that the minute you hear it start playing you know exactly which song you're listening to.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Just a preference for my own language, but the beginning of the repeated "Kiss me once, kiss me twice"'s is my favorite part of the song by far. It's really gorgeous and romantic. I like the song more imagining it's from Riku's POV.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

^couldnt have said it better myself

Although [in my book] Utada may not have the greatest singing voice(it’s still good but not my favorite) , she definitely has a power behind her voice, which replaces anything I may not like about her voice. Her music is truly art, and this theme is definitely art.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

*He did

PLANITb is the name of the artist, Russell McNamara, from PLANITb Studios in London, UK.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

to argue for a sokai reading during pride month is homophobic

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Agreed but I wouldn’t say that to sokai shippers that telling to accept the song as a soriku song

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

You're not wrong, Hikki's voice is distinctive and expressive and I love that, but on a technical level it often sounds untrained and her range isn't like amazing or anything: on this album alone, you can definitely hear her straining on tracks like "Hatsukoi" and "Nokoriga." But she isn't an operatic, and this is the voice she was given, and I love what she does with it because the emotional charge she lends to her work using her voice is invaluable in helping people connect with it.

Although I actually think her singing on "Chikai" is flawless, and she sounds even better in the chorus for "Don't Think Twice" (or what we've heard of it so far). Smooth as butter.


Haha agreed. Although a lot of the posts in this thread are homophobic any month of the year.


The posts I've seen from you are pretty respectful and nobody is arguing all SoKai shippers are anti-queer, but the users framing their arguments in opposition to a SoRiku reading of the song on the basis that it would be super WEIRD for these two friends to get together romantically, or that it's just emblematic of yaoi shippers trying to gay up the series, are being overtly homophobic, the latter on two counts: first, for misconstruing the tone and intent of SoRiku readers using the coded language of "queer panic," or the notion that even the simplest gesture acknowledging the existence of queer communities constitutes an imminent threat to heterosexual people, and second the implication that it would, in fact, be a "bad thing" if a queer relationship were acknowledged in this series. The third overarching implication is that straight people own fiction and the media and therefore any queer representation constitutes an intrusive element which is invalid because they haven't cosigned it, which is both obviously prejudiced and, in this case, decidedly unjustifiable given that Hikki has specifically engaged her art from the perspective of gay romance in the past and cautioned fans against the assumption that she is straight or that the narratives she creates are only for straight people.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Disagree, just because someone doesn't agree with a ship (because Japanese Shonen series ALWAYS have bromance style relationships that get misinterpreted as homosexual relationships [two dudes can't be friends without being considered gay]) doesn't make them homophobic. The horrible things they say to and about the shippers and the ship is homophobic.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

The art of gay hyperbole is wasted. It's just wasted in this community.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Could KH3's delay be to dodge a heretic SoKai release in 20gayteen?

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

You may be on to something, better watch your back for Nomura's ninjas.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Not a special Soriku fan, not because I do not like yaoi, but because Soriku is a typical yaoi shipping where one uke and another seme. Fans in my opinion have spoiled this shipping so much that the characters of Riku and Sora were badly cast, turning Sora into a helpless boy who can not do anything without Riku. And Riku is a pervert for whom Sora is only furniture. I have hope for Sokai for perhaps Kairi will finally cease to be "Lady in Need".

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Oh boy, I haven’t seen those phrases used for like 10 years now.

Fans in my opinion have spoiled this shipping so much that the characters of Riku and Sora were badly cast, turning Sora into a helpless boy who can not do anything without Riku. And Riku is a pervert for whom Sora is only furniture.

I know this stuff existed around 2006-8 and it was just as uncomfortable then as it can be now, but most modern interpretations of SoRiku by the fandom are very much focused on how Sora and Riku are equal to each other and tends to be in character with their game personalities.

I have hope for Sokai for perhaps Kairi will finally cease to be "Lady in Need".

I agree with that, but I don’t think SoKai has to be the vehicle for Kairi to get development. She should just have development because she needs it and is an underutilized character, and not because she will end up with Sora.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

I from fanfics came across only on fanfics about school. Where Sora and Riku is already OOC by default.
I do not like the fact that Soriku is too typical for yaoi shippig, one is gay and active, and the other is calm and withdrawn. In this regard AkuRoku is more versatile and interesting.
With the fact that Kairi needs to develop it agrees.
But I was just starving for normal Het shipping. Genre "Het" extinct. And such shippings as Lady Bug x Cat Noir, Starko, Amourshipping only dishonor this genre.

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

furniture

Sora as furniture hmmm....



Brave little toaster world?

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

Okay I agree that their post was cringe, should have been thought off more and there is a lot there I completely disagree with, but was it really necessary to quote their post on a different website... (that picture was pretty good though)? Jeez that's making me anxious to make sure I say things that everyone agrees with lol.

lol okay I honestly don't know who you're referring to with 'gay and active and the other is calm and withdrawn' because neither of them are like that. On the outside and judging only just on appearance yes it does looks like a typical one, but its not at all like a typical pairing. And realistically in a pairing one is probably going to be shorter than the other anyway even if its by a cm. The reason why people ship it in the first place is because (correct me if I'm wrong here please) Sora seems to pay more attention to Riku in Kh2 and DDD more than he does for Kairi lol. I mean I'd argue with some things like Sora's expression when Kairi hugs him (because that's a natural reaction when you're crushing on someone) and Sora hugging Riku in DDD because that must mean I'm dating like 20 people currently. But the Combined Keyblade having a diddlying paopu fruit as a keychain seals the deal for me. If that was a keyblade dedicated to Sora and Kairi it definitely would have been symbolism right there. :\

Also those ships you mentioned apart from Amourshipping are not generic lol. Marinette and Adrien and the pairing is only generic when you behave like the fandom and have four diddlying pairings dedicated to the same pairing and separate their two personalities like they're two different characters.
Also Starco is not generic because Star is the one with the superpower and Marco's personality would often be what a female would have because we're often deemed as 'the mature one'. :\

Re: Kingdom Hearts 3's theme song "Chikai" lyrics translation

What different website you talking about Willis? All I did was take furniture to it's logical Disney conclusion.