When are we expecting news?

[Deleted member]

"the game" includes everything about the game, not just the combat.

 

[Launchpad]

"the game" includes everything about the game, not just the combat.

if a game is something that is 'played' and the super cool crossover guests never appear in the 'play' portion of the game, i don't feel the need to bend over backwards to elucidate how it feels like they aren't in the game at all. i do agree that they're in the scenes, so it's a nice half-hearted attempt i suppose

 

[BufferAqua]

Unless I’m remembering wrong, I DO wish I kicked some serious ass with Quasimodo

 

[Launchpad]

Unless I’m remembering wrong, I DO wish I kicked some serious ass with Quasimodo

Dream Drop in general really cut corners with any characters appearing in the actual playable portion of the game. The whole thing feels cheap as a result. Dropping Monstro on the crab was cool though

 

[Darkspawn]

Hmm, yeah, it might be very possible that Nomura already wrote scripts for ML that are meant to tie in with KH4... ergo one being delayed delays the other one. So which one is the problem game?

My money would be on KH4. I don’t think they would delay KH4 for the sake of a mobile game, although you never know.

If Missing Link is taking longer, it has more flexibility post launch to not negatively impact KH4. If needed, story updates could be pushed out faster to still get to the KH4 relevant stuff in time.

But if KH4 is taking longer, they can only stretch Missing Link so far if they want meaningful updates on a regular schedule. So it is more likely they would delay ML due to KH4 than the other way around.

I think there’s a real possibility they are just using the time to polish the game up and get further along in the development of later content updates. Then release it at the right time ahead of KH4 and have a smooth schedule from then on. But maybe I’m giving them too much credit.

He literally is Noctis though. I am not seeing the quantifiable difference.

The key factor that makes them different characters in my eyes is that Yozora is presumably owned by Disney and Noctis is owned by SE. Disney owns any original character introduced in KH. So unless a deal was made for an exception, Yozora can’t literally be Noctis. It would cause all sorts of legal headaches related to who owns the character.

I’ve always believed Yozora and Verum Rex being in KH was intentional by Nomura to prevent SE from giving his ideas to someone else again. They can’t just do whatever they want with Yozora now. They’d have to take Nomura off KH completely now for him to lose that creative control.

Dream Drop in general really cut corners with any characters appearing in the actual playable portion of the game. The whole thing feels cheap as a result. Dropping Monstro on the crab was cool though

I think it’s a valid criticism. Even in Re:Mind, you at least had the little section where you talk to Leon and the gang as Riku. When they only exist in cutscenes, their presence is fleeting.

 

[Chie]

I can't get behind the school of thought that "gameplay" and "story" should be separated in the first place - saying the story scenes are not part of the game seems regressive in terms of how we think of videogames - BUT, obviously DDD itself often DOES separate them, to its major detriment.

I think the biggest ball it drops is that TWEWY music, one of the most distinctive parts of that game, never plays in a fight. Of course it would make the most sense to have it be played in a TWEWY-themed fight of some sort, but even if we don't have that, they went out of their way to make new remixes of the soundtrack just to be played in the background of cutscenes. It's quite strange.

The key factor that makes them different characters in my eyes is that Yozora is presumably owned by Disney and Noctis is owned by SE. Disney owns any original character introduced in KH. So unless a deal was made for an exception, Yozora can’t literally be Noctis. It would cause all sorts of legal headaches related to who owns the character.

But none of that matters at all unless you're a lawyer or a cop or something. IP law is stupid and fake. I can't ever understand why fans revert to this in how they engage with a work; it doesn't benefit anyone except some executives.

 

[Darkspawn]

But none of that matters at all unless you're a lawyer or a cop or something. IP law is stupid and fake. I can't ever understand why fans revert to this in how they engage with a work; it doesn't benefit anyone except some executives

It absolutely matters because it impacts what creative decisions can be made with the character. You can dislike IP law all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that it exists and puts restrictions on what they can do. If Yozora is owned by Disney, they cannot do a storyline where he turns out to actually be Noctis. If that were the case, he would have to be trademarked as a Final Fantasy character and would be owned by SE.

 

[Launchpad]

while this thread has been used as a little bit of this and that while there's been no news, this is the last I'll say on the TWEWY stuff just so things don't get overly congested.

My stance on TWEWY is more fatalistic than something like, say, Xion only appearing in a cutscene, or Hunchback not having any movie characters in gameplay. Xion is a capital "M" main character who leaves an impact on the story even with a very brief appearance. Hunchback was botched, but you still get to run around Paris, the cathedral, the catacombs... Where with TWEWY it feels like the characters and music were dropped into a few scenes for the sake of riling up fans of that series without giving even one character a chance to leave their mark on the gameplay portion.

I didn't know anything about Final Fantasy as a wee boy playing KH1, but those characters made a significant impression even without knowing about their original games. Not only was the writing a bit stronger, but they put you up against almost all of them in fights, and Cid and Aerith can be spoken to in the overworld, with the former doing Gummi stuff and the latter giving you access to the top level cure magic. Meanwhile, the TWEWY characters vanish like ghosts when gameplay begins, and are nowhere to be found after clearing Traverse Town. I don't know anything about TWEWY, and its appearance in KH did not make me more interested.

Its inclusion feels rushed at best and cynical at worst, to me.

 

[Chie]

It absolutely matters because it impacts what creative decisions can be made with the character. You can dislike IP law all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that it exists and puts restrictions on what they can do. If Yozora is owned by Disney, they cannot do a storyline where he turns out to actually be Noctis. If that were the case, he would have to be trademarked as a Final Fantasy character and would be owned by SE.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but what I was saying is, "despite being legally distinct, I see no functional reason why as players we can't acknowledge Yozora as a version of Noctis, because it's supposed to be obvious that that's what he is, and so the way we engage with the games has zero difference than if they did call him Noctis".

IP law does not "exist" by the way, no laws "exist".

 

[Darkspawn]

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but what I was saying is, "despite being legally distinct, I see no functional reason why as players we can't acknowledge Yozora as a version of Noctis, because it's supposed to be obvious that that's what he is, and so the way we engage with the games has zero difference than if they did call him Noctis".

But it does matter because he is not a version of Noctis. Noctis is the character from FFXV. Yozora is a new character that is inspired by the original concept of Noctis that never came to fruition.

You might as well say Riku is also Noctis because he was also inspired by the same character design. Or that Cloud in KH1 is Vincent. EDIT: Better examples would be that Axel is Reno and Larxene is Elena.

Also, Yozora is not in his true form. So until we know what he really looks like, it is premature to claim he is a version of Noctis even ignoring IP stuff.

IP law does not "exist" by the way, no laws "exist".

You know this is a disingenuous argument that does nothing to actually consider the points I’m making.

 

[Chaser]

We got IP law debates and what makes a game a game discourse before Missing-Link released.

It’s dire out here.

 

[BufferAqua]

Haha, I’ve just mostly been lurking. It’s fun seeing different viewpoints though!

 

[Chie]

You know this is a disingenuous argument that does nothing to actually consider the points I’m making.

Absolute basic "the map is not the territory" theory is not disingenuous. The points you're making are not only irrespective of everything I've said, but also quite literally the thing I was trying to deconstruct in the first place, in which case I've already devoted many words to this subject.

I, at length, explained that there is little functional difference between "Yozora as Nomura's KH version of Noctis" and "Cloud as Nomura's KH version of Cloud" beyond legal distinction. You told me that this legal distinction was the reason why they are objectively distinct despite all of that. I said that this shouldn't matter to how we interpret the content of the games, and now you've moved the goalpost back to "well, he's only loosely inspired by the character" as if A) [the entire content of the game] and B) we hadn't already had this conversation in the first place!

To be told on top of all of that that I'm being disingenuous by saying IP law is fake, as if that wasn't the very crux of my argument... I don't know what to tell you, but as usual I'm given the strong impression I have absolutely wasted my effort trying to explain this. It's insulting.

There are numerous other examples of authors using "legally distinct" versions of their characters throughout history that are obviously supposed to be read as that character by the reader... I could go on about that at length, but nobody will read it.

 

[Phoenix]

We got IP law debates and what makes a game a game discourse before Missing-Link released.

It’s dire out here.

Nomura, please, we're dying

 

[Chaser]

Still not looking good….

TOKYO GAME SHOW 2024 - 東京ゲームショウ2024 | SQUARE ENIX

スクウェア・エニックスの「東京ゲームショウ2024」特設サイト

www.jp.square-enix.com

 

[xenosaga]

The initial line up usually isn't final, but yeah it's not looking good lol.

 

[Darkspawn]

Still not looking good….

TOKYO GAME SHOW 2024 - 東京ゲームショウ2024 | SQUARE ENIX

スクウェア・エニックスの「東京ゲームショウ2024」特設サイト

www.jp.square-enix.com

Looks like the description of the pre-recorded special program on the 29th says it will focus on DQ3 and Romancing SaGa 2. But also looks like other games may be included as well? That’s probably the only chance at TGS proper. Someone feel encouraged to properly translate.

We may have underestimated how big DQIII is going to be in Japan and that their focus will be on that at TGS.

 

[xenosaga]

DQ is obviously still super big and DQ3 will probably be "the main game" this year.
But they could still add stuff later. Last year they opened the site without FF7 Rebirth, which was by far their biggest main game of the show.

 

[Squood!]

KH Missing Link Coming 2024--

Dragon Quest III: OUTTA THE WAY NEEEEEEERD

 

[Darkspawn]

Absolute basic "the map is not the territory" theory is not disingenuous. The points you're making are not only irrespective of everything I've said, but also quite literally the thing I was trying to deconstruct in the first place, in which case I've already devoted many words to this subject.

I, at length, explained that there is little functional difference between "Yozora as Nomura's KH version of Noctis" and "Cloud as Nomura's KH version of Cloud" beyond legal distinction. You told me that this legal distinction was the reason why they are objectively distinct despite all of that. I said that this shouldn't matter to how we interpret the content of the games, and now you've moved the goalpost back to "well, he's only loosely inspired by the character" as if A) [the entire content of the game] and B) we hadn't already had this conversation in the first place!

To be told on top of all of that that I'm being disingenuous by saying IP law is fake, as if that wasn't the very crux of my argument... I don't know what to tell you, but as usual I'm given the strong impression I have absolutely wasted my effort trying to explain this. It's insulting.

First, I hadn’t caught up on all your posts before responding to the one I did. I somehow missed a lot of the earlier posts on the subject. Probably because there are like five different conversations happening in this thread right now. So I was only looking at your claim in the post I responded to saying Yozora is literally Noctis. I missed where you had previously mentioned IP law as the only distinction. That’s my bad and I apologize.

Second, you’re dismissing points based on claims like “laws don’t exist” and suggesting it is ridiculous for fans to bring up these kind of points. Do you not see how that can be insulting? We all know laws are made up. But that doesn’t change that they have real world impact. Your claim I responded to was that “Yozora is literally Noctis.” IP law does objectively mean they cannot literally be the same character. And this does impact the decisions the creative team will make when designing the character and their story.

But all the IP stuff aside, I still think it is reductive to say we should accept Yozora and co. as FF characters for no other reason than they are “close enough” to those characters. Sora has similarities with the Bouncer and Cloud. Ansem SoD has similarities with Sephiroth and Kuja. Vexen and Hojo. Namine with Aya Brea. Previously mentioned Axel/Reno and Larxene/Elena. But they are still distinct creations and characters. Yozora’s relationship to Noctis is no different. (Again, based on what we currently know.) If this isn’t the case, we might as well say they are all FF characters and there are no characters original to KH.

There’s (what I hope would be) an obvious difference in an original character inspired by a FF character and literally being that character. Cloud is slightly different in KH compared to FFVII, but he is still literally Cloud and is credited as such. This is not the same as Reno being the inspiration for Axel or Noctis for Yozora. The people who are asking for more FF characters are looking for the former. FF is and always will be in the DNA of the series including with the original characters. But that doesn’t invalidate people who want genuine FF cameos.