WHOOPS! Added a spoiler warning!

now i get it so the master of master mean he is the master of the keyblade masters

I knew I recgonized Tomoko Kaneda's voice, Nel, Culmon,

[FONT=DejaVu Sans] Kemokem, can't wait to hear more of her in Back Cover.

Intersting news, CaCan't wait for what D23 Japan as in store for us[/FONT]

It makes me so happy whenever Nomura talks about Chi <3

Just as a side note, the new 50 quests of the month for Unchained that Nomura refers to will be added today.

Really interesting stuff. The Chi plot stuff has me really intrigued. Hopefully it actually ends up doing a good job of explaining the origins of everything in the series. By that I mean, I hope the explanations are well thought out, and not a bunch of tropes added in to explain away the big mysteries of the overall story.

Nomura's reasoning behind the naming of the new collection and the titles included is so asenine lol.

The Masters of Masters is starting to sound more like a god of some sort. Interesting. I'm mostly interested about him and the black coated person.

I'm honestly beginning to wonder.

––I definitely wanted to experience that feeling of crispness. However again about KHχ Back Cover, it is drawn in the perspective of the five Foreteller? Nomura: There is also the Foreteller’s leader, “Master of Masters”. The person Chirithy talks about is “this individual” being referred to as his “master”. ––So Chirithy was created. Nomura: Yes. However, the Master of Masters is regarded differently and isn’t what people call normally as a "master”. Because it’s being referred to as a Master of Masters, it indicates the person’s standing position. The Foretellers themselves are Keyblade Masters. Their teacher however is the Master of Masters. That is what I mean by Master of Masters.

The master gets more suspicious to me. Sooo 2.8 foretellers/crithies PoV, chi & unchained ours.

So being the master of keyblade masters means he's the most likely candidate for creation of said weapon I take it. Though I guess he always was.

Well looks like Zootopia and Moana are out... :(. Oh well, guess to hope to see them as summons :)

An actually God in the Kingdom Hearts universe? Now that`s a concept worth exploring

Well there is always the next saga

Realistically, they were out to begin with. It's better to wait for the movies come out and save stuff for the next series.

The Masters of Masters a god, huh? Well, now I want him as a optional boss in KH3.

Master of Masters sounds sort of lame, I hope they give him an actual name when they reveal him :D (maybe it's Xehanort :o)

Doesn't the text in Chi, when Chirithy speaks of the Master, capitalize the pronoun "He"?
As in, "My master, He who..." or "He bestowed upon five of His six apprentices..."

Such capitalization of a pronoun is typical when referring to a God. So maybe the Master of Masters is indeed some sort of deity?



Walt Disney confirmed as Master of Masters.

Guys, Chirithy was made in a scientific beaker. More specifically a round-bottom flask.



The Master of Masters was/is probably a scientists of some sort, not a god. Of course to Chirithy the Master of Masters would be like a god since he brought him into existence.

I think it is possible he may amount to something much more higher than a regular being (especially since he has eyes that can see into the future), but I don't think he's as much of a deity like you all are assuming.

A scientist [strike]who looks like Walt Disney[/strike] who can see into the future? Interesting combo.

So is this "Master of Masters" same as "The Lost Master" mentioned by YX in KH 3 E3 trailer?

"The Lost Masters" is plural. It is likely referring to the Foretellers.

So how does this interview confirm that Big HERO 6 was the last world to be selected?

The closest parallel we have to the Master of Masters in the lore at the moment is Ansem, whose alter-ego DiZ had some Disney inspiration, so, not far off probably.

So how does this interview confirm that Big HERO 6 was the last world to be selected?

It doesn't, it just says that they're pretty much done with world selection. I'm sure he means they're got the roundup, but there's a chance they'll cut something like they always do.

According to a different translation of the interview it sort of was:

“KH2.8” leads to “KHIII”, and the other day “Big Hero 6"’s world was announced with great applause. Nomura: Because it was the most recent world decided, there was not a lot I could tell but I’m glad the guests were excited. Big Hero 6 is from the near future but in a cityscape with a modern feel and the sheer amount of action and fun are what made it a clear choice for me.

Huh, I wasn't aware another site had translated it.

I've always compared Ansem the Wise and his group of students to the Foretellers and their Master... And i've always said that Ansem the Wise isn't as innocent as he looks :D
We'll see but the story's gonna get interesting, and by that I mean messed up. And by that I don't mean it like a good thing :D

The similarities to Ansem the Wise are indeed startling.
Not to mention that Ansem also started out with five apprentices until the sixth (Xehanort) came along.
It also turned out that one of the original five (Braig) conspired with the sixth and was the first to turn traitor on both Ansem and the other apprentices. Eventually, the four others also turned traitor and Ansem was banished.

Gods can't use flasks? [jk]

In all seriousness though I highly doubt the master is a normal being by any means. He made Crithie but it's a dream eater (assuming chi isn't a dream then a dream eater in the waking world is rather noteworthy), he's the master of the original keyblade masters making him the weapons creator likely (and to me suspicious), and can apparently see into the future making books that can make worlds and summon abilities from the future....

Demigod archetype maybe? Or perhaps just cursed. It'd be rather ironic if he could do all these things because he could see the future. (meaning he could see making them before he actually did)
Just imagine the irony of a man that could see the future but not see that he caused the horrible future he saw.

With the animal theme going on with the Foretellers and their Keyblades I'm not sure if the master of masters is even human-looking. Maybe people learned Keyblade-bending from the wise dragons before the fire nation attacked.

I'm with icognito, a flask doesn't rule out the master being a God. I recal real world legends of Gods and Goddesses creating things using magic and alchemy. The Master could have been based off of Gods like that

I'm pretty sure that the Master of Masters, even though he might not literally be a deity, is the closest we'll ever get to a god in this series and is meant to be "a god-like" character in its importance and role. He's bestowing knowledge upon his followers, he creates life (made Chirithy, presumably) etc.

The stuff he's done sure makes him sound like the creator of pretty much everything we know of so far. So yeah, I wouldn't rule out the possibility out at all. Will they ever literally call him a god? Doubt it. Nomura's trying his hardest not to by giving him the name "Master of Masters".

I hope at D23 we finally see Riku and Kairi's new looks.

Chirithy was made with science?!
I'm still not used to "Master of Masters." We already have the MoM acronym... MoM...he's Chirithy's mom. *laughs*

But man, now seeing that MoM may have been a scientist gives greater parallel to him and Ansem the Wise.

So based on what you're saying, the Master of Masters was banished to the RoD just like Ansem. So maybe Aqua will encounter him in 0.2?(though I think it will be Mickey who she will encounter)

Holy crap. This can't be a coincidence.

Nomura really loves doing this kind of shit, doesn't he?

I love it.

So does the Ansem the Wise and his apprentices comparison go something like this:

Master of the Master, presumably a person with much power. Also the bottle that has the Chirithy in it could imply that this person is a scientist. He also is said to posses eyes that can see into the future.
We have Ansem the Wise, an loved Philosopher King and respected scientist who does many experiments.
MoM = AtW

MoM has five apprentices, the leaders of the Unions, the five Foretellers, Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus(who now know as Ava) That was her name, right. MoM gives five of them a tome, but not to the sixth one.
AtW has five apprentices, Even, Ienzo, Dilan, Aeleus and Braig.

I wonder if you could see similarities between them? This just me making an assumption based on their body structure and a whim. Ursus is the bear, a strong looking fellow. Maybe this is similarity to Aeleus, since he is big and strong looking. The other strong looking Foreteller, Unicornis, could be parallel to Dilan also having a strong body structure. This leaves Anguis, Leopardos and Vulpeus. And then we have Ienzo, Even and Braig. Braig is the traitor one, but we have now idea which Foreteller that it is. Ienzo when he was know as Zexion, was he master of illusions and shadowy tactician. Even as Vexen(or maybe he was this way also before turning into a Nobody) a chilling scientist, having fascination towards experiments and also a rather curious person. Snake and a leopard... Hmm...

Like Sephiroth said, then the sixth came along and maybe in the MoM case that person is the black coat dude. And in AtW`s case of course that is Xehanort. Then among AtW apprentices there is person who conspires with the sixth apprentice, Braig, and now there are talks that there is a traitor among the Foretellers, presumably teaming up with the black coated guy.

Man, I can just see Nomura trollishly smiling when he was creating this. :D I really like when he makes stuff like this.

Also, what do you guys think "the eyes that can see the future" actually is/are? Is it some sort of magic, or maybe a scientific machine/method that is so high tech, that is seen as magic? Something similar to an old outdated theory called Laplce`s Demon:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon found by an French scientist. Maybe Nomura has a similar concept behind this idea? Oh, I hope this idea is not too weird or something.

Some notes:
1: Ansem wasn't really a King, he was referred to as a Lord. I make this distinction because I've almost only ever see people call him a King when trying to make Kairi his daughter to explain her being an actual princess.

2: I'm not sure if you know about the Rebirth theory, but it's no denying that the Foretellers actually share body frames ( that we can tell in their 2d form) and color schemes with Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Kairi and Riku.

3: The seeing eye thing is probably embodied in the blue eye insignia that's on the foretellers Keyblades as well as Xehanort's (which, let's stop kidding ourselves, we all know that Keyblade belongs to the Master of Master's dejected apprentice). And it makes appearances on all Xehanort-related weapons. I think I've seen that eye being referred to as a demon eye before

Oh right, I got that wrong. Didn`t Apprentice Xehanort also call him as master?

Yeah, I`ve read the Rebirth theory. One the most fascinating things I have ever read, and you can indeed see the similarities between the Foretellers and Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Kairi and Riku. It`s been a while since I last read it, so my memory is a little wonky with all the details presented there. I was just wondering maybe Nomura is making an comparison to the AtW apprentices also based on the body structure, and not just with the 1 leader plus 5 apprentices thing. Uuh.. does my sentence make any sense?

Oh shoot, the eye of course! That thing has manifested itself in so many occasions that it must bear some significance. I think I`ve herd it called the Eye of Darkness in some occasions. It would be rather scary if the MoM had similar eyes. Ugh, I am getting shivers just thinking about those two blue scary eyes, staring at you form the distance.
About Xehanorts Goat Keyblade, it`s said to be the oldest, and probably the first one that was ever forged. Is it really the oldest one, or could it be the oldest one they know of?

According to Young Xehanort, it is the oldest man-made Keyblade in existence.

The first man-made Keyblade has an rather brutal outlook. :D
I wonder, how the time travelling Youngnort learned that information? He knows it the oldest one, and also that he will inherit it one day. Maybe Ansem SoD or some other Nort told him this when he was doing the time travel stuff. Oh well, pretty sure he will learn this information eventually when he is training with Eraqus. A question that also can be raised is how on earth did it end up hanging in the wall of Land of Departure?

OK I guess that makes sense. I'm curious to see what other worlds were selected (specifically old ones).

I was half joking haha but if you wanted to be technical it doesn't really rule out anything I dont guess. There are plenty of gods on various forms of ancient fields though so him being a godlike figure of some pre or pseudo science isn't out of the question.





This confuses me tbh. Is that keyblade the Masters or the 6ths? If it's the oldest but the 6ths then what did the Master have? He had to have had something to be the "master of keyblade masters".

My guess?

The χ-Blade.

Except... Keyblades were made to fight over the X-Blade and the Light? And if he made the Keyblades... then he was making them to encourage people to fight him for the X-Blade?

Thus my confusion and suspicion. He's either a hugely morally grey character or what he made was something between Xblade & Keyblade, prototype maybe. Or he could've had the Xblade....*shrugs*

Or his Keyblade is Xehanort's Keyblade...

It could, it absolutely could, but Xehanort's Keyblade is adorned with the symbol of the goat with all its devilish and recusant implications being perfect for the outlier apprentice.

Moreover, Xehanort doesn't say that his Keyblade is the first forged, just the most ancient one in existence. That could mean the same thing, but in theory, the other Keyblades of that era could be shattered and gone. I find this likely, given the lifeless, vacant, and broken nature of the Keyblades at the Keyblade Graveyard.

Or for the Master, who is above them alllll.
Perhaps he passed down this Keyblade to the apprentice.

Consolation prize for not getting the Book lol.

(i should probably stop commenting in this thread because i actually don't care about theorizing about this keyblade lol)

srsly, stop fighting this perfect headcanonnnnnn

I have yet to play any KHX games, or read any theories other than what's been in this thread of comments, but...
What if "eyes that see into the future" refers to the ability to time travel?
Like Xehanort and company do in KHDDD?
What if we've already *seen* MoM in the cutscene in TWTNW with all the hooded figures gathering?
What if the black-coated figure mentioned having appeared in KHX was one of Xehanort's incarnations?
What if Xehanort IS MoM?
Who says the Master of Masters was in any way benevolent? Or maybe he was, at one time, a time long ago...

Well, I mean, that would kind of be strange to refer to time travel in such a fashion. Why not just say that he could travel through time? "Eyes that could see into the future" paints more of a picture of a man who has direct visions of what the future holds.

When comparing the Foretellers and Ansem's original apprentices though one has to be a lot more creative, not only because two of the Foretellers are female while Ansem's Apprentices are all guys, but also because personality-wise someone such as Ava seems to not really be among them.
We also don't know anything about the personalities of the other Foretellers, only that they are, according to Ava, harder to approach than herself.
The animal motifs could work for them though:
A bear is strong and rather silent, fitting for Aeleus.
An unicorn is commonly regarded as a creature of purity and grace, but in the legends of the middle ages it is also decribed as extremely wild and untamable, just like the Wind Dilan/Xaldin commands. Furthermore, an unicorn has a long horn which can represent Dilan's spear.
foxes are known for cunning and trickery, but also for being mischievous and often having magical powers that can be used for either wonder or ruin depending on the user. Probably the most powerful mythogical fox is the Jiuweihu of chinese folklore, more commonly known as the Nine-tailed fox spirit in the west which can be both good or evil depending on the story in question.
These traits would fit Braig, Even and Ienzo to different degrees, which is why it is difficult to assign the fox directly.
Leopards are known to be very fast, agile and versatile, yet also elusive and stealthy as well as being reluctant to fight if not absolutely necessary, which thematically fits both Even and Ienzo to some degree.
The snake has several motifs in mythology, ranging from the most known symbolism of clever scheming, tempation and sublety, it can also stand for immortality, fertility, wisdom, Guardianship, vengefulness and vindictiveness. Different combinations of these traits would fit Braig, Even and Ienzo all the same so Unicornis and Ursus are really the only Foretellers that can be definitely designated to one of the apprentices in theory for sure right now.

Vulpeus (the fox) could be either Braig, Even or Ienzo.
Leopardus could be either Even or Ienzo.
Anguis could again be all three of the remaining ones.


That's the primary gist of this theory. If it is any good however depends on how the whole issue is handled in-universe.

Crafting such parallels is definitely a thing Nomura likes to pull as it would be not the first time for something like that to happen.



1. He is credited as the ruler of Radiant Garden though and a King is always also a Lord if he's true royalty/nobility. Sure, someone can be an Earl, a Count or a Duke and still rule over a city state, but I'd say that is nitpicking titles. Fanon theories with no real substance though as Kairi is never confirmed to be royalty at all nor is there any hint that she is somehow directly related to Ansem.

2. And yet the Rebirth theory is only that, a theory. It doesn't have any more merit than the possible other parallels or connections the Foretellers might have nor does it invalidate them.

3. Agreed on the eye, but not on the owner of the Goat-blade. We don't know if the sixth Apprentice is the one who holds it in the past or if he forged it. The Master of Masters is also a valid candidate for that role.



So the Master of Masters did with the Sixth the same that Yen Sid did with Mickey?
Interesting thought.



It would also not really work that way as people who time travel not only forget everything they experience during the time travel, they can also only travel to a period where a version of them already exists.

Between keyblade transformation, keychains and how Terra's and Aquas changed shape after being abandoned I think the keyblade being altered to its devilish look after the 6th received isn't anywhere out of question.

The 6th getting it as consolation would be funny lol.

When ya look at it there's surprisingly few options. It's the oldest known keyblade but the Foretellers had have some just as old or older if the AtW parallel is true. Then the master himself had to have something as well.
Pretty much leaves you with the keyblade was originally the masters or whatever the master had vanished with him. (same for the Foretellers and their own blades)

If they really were forged for bad ends then that makes the master suspicious. But for all we know goat-blade is the prototype the Foretellers used to make their own spawning the war through the traitors manipulation.

When comparing the Foretellers and Ansem's original apprentices though one has to be a lot more creative, not only because two of the Foretellers are female while Ansem's Apprentices are all guys, but also because personality-wise someone such as Ava seems to not really be among them. We also don't know anything about the personalities of the other Foretellers, only that they are, according to Ava, harder to approach than herself. The animal motifs could work for them though:

Oh, I think I was aiming for the animal comparison at first, but then for some reason started to talk about body structure and etc... It was really late and I was also tired when I started to write it yesterday, so the comparison was not as imaginative as I was hoping it to be. Shows that I still have to hone my theory crafting skills and I am nowhere near to the level you guys possess. You should have seen my face when I first time bumped into one the longer essay like posts in here. I had thought that my knowledge about KH was pretty good, but after reading that, I kinda felt like Aristotle and accepted the fact, that the path to wisdom begins when you acknowledge the fact that you know nothing. :)

Oh man, the animal comparison opens up a lot of possible parallels.

I hope we can fight MoM as a Test and optain his keyblade with a awesome OP transformation

This is completely unrelated, but you're thinking of Socrates, not Aristotle. Aristotle was the guy who came up with a lot of BS ideas about physics, which everyone accepted unconditionally for a very long time. In fact, his "knowledge" impeded actual scientific progress for quite a long time. :P

Shoot I mixed them. Thanks for the correction BlackOsprey! :)

Body structure can be misleading, not only because several people can have a similar body structure, but also because the Foretellers (as well as Ephemera) are only shown in 2D chibi-style versions to far.
If fatigue plays into it the best theorist can screw up, lol.
The fact that you already made the connection between Ansem the Wise & his cronies and the Grand Master + Foretellers shows that you have talent/skill for it though. ^__^

Geez, I'm actually not too fond at least of my own essay-long posts as when formulating my thoughts I tend to get carried away and the post becomes much longer than I originally intended...<__<

Yep, the animal comparison can be fitted to Ansem's apprentices somewhat as well as to other characters, so I'd say it has around the same merit and possibility that the rebirth-theory may have.

That being said, as good as the rebirth-theory is I somewhat get the vibe that some people around here (and possibly elsewhere in the net too) forget that it is actually just a theory and treat it as already very much factual information when it isn't.
If one would ask my personal opinion on it, I have to say that I personally hope the rebirth-theory is not correct as the story certainly does not need yet another set of clones/derivatives of several of the major characters in the KH series. Except Aqua and Terra, each one of them already has at least one derivative character design-wise.

Yay, I have hope! :D
Oh, I do quite enjoy your longer posts. They make me think and take perspectives on the series that I haven`t considered before. Almost everybody here do that to me, and I think it`s really cool.

I agree wholeheartedly. As good as a grass theory is I think the overall lack of originality in favor of cloning for cast needs to stop. Nomura being so shocked about Aquas own popularity despite not having or being a clone says volumes about his mindset on the matter....

Nomura is shocked about Aqua's popularity? Ghee, after Kairi's lackluster character development, it was refreshing to see a versatile female Keyblade wielder who was likable at the time of Birth By Sleep's release.