New Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Screenshots Show Off Unreal Engine 4
- Details
- Published on June 8, 2016 @ 12:10 pm
- Written by Joey
With the big media blow out for KINGDOM HEARTS HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue prior to E3, Square Enix has graced us with screenshots from the upcoming Playstation 4 game. The screenshots give us a good look at the updated visuals to KINGDOM HEARTS [Dream Drop Distance] HD, which was originally released in 2012 for the Nintendo 3DS which followed Sora and Riku as they traveled to brand new worlds in order to complete their Mark of Mastery examination.
However the glorious feature of the screenshots are certainly the visuals for KINGDOM HEARTS χ [chi] Back Cover and KINGDOM HEARTS 0.2 Birth by Sleep – A Fragmentary Passage – which have both been created using Unreal Engine 4, the same engine being used to create Kingdom Hearts 3.
COMMENTS
Tell me Aqua's Model looks like plastic.
Go ahead. I'll laugh.
I suppose it's just still "new" for some people that they'll just look different than before, now in UE4. I'm absolutely happy with her face.
Holy shit, now that looked pretty neat!
And im so glad that we get 2.8 in the end of this year plus new KH3 info in Winter (probably TGS).
Oh yeah i almost forgot........TERRA IS BACK BOYS!!!!!!
People really need to stop complaining about the character models. I think in the back of their minds, they're still expecting them to look more realistic, even though Nomura clearly stated that's not what they're going for. It's still focused on keeping a cartooney style. I think once everyone understands that, they'll come to accept it.
I think the models look great!
Holy shit, now that looked pretty neat!
And im so glad that we get 2.8 in the end of this year plus new KH3 info in Winter (probably TGS).
Oh yeah i almost forgot........TERRA IS BACK BOYS!!!!!!
People really need to stop complaining about the character models. I think in the back of their minds, they're still expecting them to look more realistic, even though Nomura clearly stated that's not what they're going for. It's still focused on keeping a cartooney style. I think once everyone understands that, they'll come to accept it.
I think the models look great!
I actually think they look even MORE cartooney now than in earlier games. And I'm really happy with that. o.o
I'm gonna take my comment from the other thread to here, to add to the discussion:
Guys, I think it's time to accept that the models look like that on purpose and it's Kingdom Hearts's style.
It never was before, though. Neither the Disney visuals or Final Fantasy visuals look like plastic. The lighting on Aqua's face, for example, is way too harsh, making her look all shiny.
[spoiler="Aqua in-game action figure"]
[/spoiler]It looks plain wrong. Also, you can't have super-detailed clothing-textures and then have that kind of skin texture, without any detail whatsoever. Same goes for the textures on the hair. Why make the textures on the clothing super detailed, but keep the hair look like plastic?
This, on the other hand, looks nice.
Notice how clothing almost never is an issue, but it's always the skin. To say they wanna create a cartoon-y look doesn't really help its case either. Let's take a look at some of the visuals from Disney's most recent movies:
[spoiler="screenshots"]
[/spoiler]They don't look like plastic. Why? The skin has more details and colour variations and the lighting interaction is way softer. The hair is also way more detailed. Everything has enough details to not make it look like plastic, or clay.
The environments in the games look appropriately soft, same goes for the Heartless (the Shadows look amazing), but the character models are very problematic and inconsistent with the rest of the visuals.
Think it's safe to say they're having trouble here.
People really need to stop complaining about the character models. I think in the back of their minds, they're still expecting them to look more realistic, even though Nomura clearly stated that's not what they're going for. It's still focused on keeping a cartooney style. I think once everyone understands that, they'll come to accept it.
I think the models look great!
I like em, but not everybody has to. Let people complain. :p
I'm happy with the ones presented in the trailer, I'm very happy with how the characters look now.
Flynn in DDD still blows me away
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Btw I LOVE the glowing of the Shadows' eyes and how gigantic they are. This is plain awesome.
Tell me that you share a different opinion than me.
Go ahead. I'll laugh.
And fixed.
I don't know why are there separate threads for the trailer and screenshots but I guess I'll talk about dem models here. Like others have said, they don't look bad but just different. I don't think much will change between now and December, so I'll just be happy with what we got.
I honestly never had a problem with the shiny models. They're shiny, so what? It's not the end of the world. Im just happy that we got to see Aqua
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
This looks borderline like CG.
I don't know why are there separate threads for the trailer and screenshots
We do it for the clicks.
We do it for the clicks.
Khinsider is a profitable business and nothing more
Aqua looks much better but there is still room for improvement. Much better though that the previous 0.2 models
To further my earlier point: they went from this, which genuinely looked like it came straight from a Disney movie:
[spoiler="KH3 reveal"]
[/spoiler]
to this:
[spoiler="KH 0.2 - Aqua"][/spoiler]
The change of engine shouldn't change the visual style this drastically. Where there used to be consistency, there's now a very inconsistent look. If you look at other games that have similar graphics (or like I said before: current Disney movies), you'll find that the lighting on the character models is way softer than it is currently in Kingdom Hearts. I have absolutely no idea why they decided to go with this look.
^
Except one is In-Game and the other is a Render.
Also, how has the artstyle changed? I don't get it
To further my earlier point: they went from this:
[spoiler="KH3 reveal"][/spoiler]
to this:
[spoiler="KH 0.2 - Aqua"][/spoiler]
The change of engine shouldn't change the artstyle this drastically. Where there used to be consistency, there's now a very inconsistent look.
The Sora picture though is not real-time, I doubt it is in-engine as well. It's a render.
A use of D23 footage would be more appropriate and Sora still looks much better there.
There is a very specific spot in the Tital/Train ride sequence where SDG look amazing, in complete harmony with the environment and the lightning is sublime. I mean to do a gif of that scene when I can.
I'm aware that's a pre-render and not in-game footage, but that's the look they're going for nonetheless. In terms of lighting, the current in-game graphics don't come even close to that.
There are moments where things look good, especially during actual gameplay when the camera's further away from the models, but whenever the camera gets closer, you see how inconsistent the look is.
Well, for better or worse, this is the look they are going with. /shrug
The Sora picture though is not real-time, I doubt it is in-engine as well. It's a render.
A use of D23 footage would be more appropriate and Sora still looks much better there.
There is a very specific spot in the Tital/Train ride sequence where SDG look amazing, in complete harmony with the environment and the lightning is sublime. I mean to do a gif of that scene when I can.
I'm aware that's a pre-render and not in-game footage, but that's the look they're going for nonetheless. In terms of lighting, the current in-game graphics don't come even close to that.
There are moments where things look good, especially during actual gameplay when the camera's further away from the models, but whenever the camera gets closer, you see how inconsistent the look is.
There are sometimes when you have to accept the disappointment and realise that what they're going for and what is shown are not one and the same.
Imagine being a fan of Ubisoft. You'd be constantly disappointed:
[video=youtube;xNter0oEYxc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNter0oEYxc[/video]
That was prior to the swap to Unreal Engine 4. Anything before December 2014 should be ignored.
Also it's a good thing they swapped engines. With the amount of trouble Luminous apparently is, it's good they can actually make a good game.
I'm aware that's a pre-render and not in-game footage, but that's the look they're going for nonetheless. In terms of lighting, the current in-game graphics don't come even close to that.
There are moments where things look good, especially during actual gameplay when the camera's further away from the models, but whenever the camera gets closer, you see how inconsistent the look is.
If it bothers you so much, just don't buy the game, honestly. It is how it is, and nothing's gonna change that.
You either accept it, or you don't.
I'm just wondering what normal Terra was doing in the realm of darkness? Maybe so much time has passed for her that he's already been recovered and he's saving her, but I feel like them meeting whould have been for dramatic if that was the case
Well, for better or worse, this is the look they are going with. /shrug
I honestly highly doubt that.
You can tell they're having issues with the engine, just by looking at the vision they had before they jumped to the Unreal Engine and I don't think anyone should be this accepting just yet.
Again, looking at other games with similar visuals, this looks unpolished.
If it bothers you so much, just don't buy the game, honestly. It is how it is, and nothing's gonna change that.
You either accept it, or you don't.
Seriously? I'm just trying to encourage discussion here.
I remember when graphics weren't all that important.
I honestly highly doubt that.
You can tell they're having issues with the engine, just by looking at the vision they had before they jumped to the Unreal Engine and I don't think anyone should be this accepting just yet.
Well, Nomura himself has expressed in interviews that he is satisfied with how it looks and that he believes he has closely matched their original vision to what they are capable of. The game will unlikely look very much different from now until release since they are clearly at the end of development (voice work is one of the last things to be done and it has a release in six months). It's probably time to accept that it will not look much different from this.
I remember when graphics weren't all that important.
Good old times, eh?
I honestly highly doubt that.
You can tell they're having issues with the engine, just by looking at the vision they had before they jumped to the Unreal Engine and I don't think anyone should be this accepting just yet.
Again, looking at other games with similar visuals, this looks unpolished.
Seriously? I'm just trying to encourage discussion here.
They seem to be having "problems" with shadows and with lightning in general.
If it bothers you so much, just don't buy the game, honestly. It is how it is, and nothing's gonna change that.
You either accept it, or you don't.
Likewise, since you are buying it no matter what apparently, maybe graphics discussions don't concern you much?
I remember when graphics weren't all that important.
Lol, yeah.
Maybe I'm just too easily content, but while Aqua's face shining a lot doesn't look like KH used to, I still think it somehow fits. And the rest of her looks great D:
I'm just wondering what normal Terra was doing in the realm of darkness? Maybe so much time has passed for her that he's already been recovered and he's saving her, but I feel like them meeting whould have been for dramatic if that was the case
It doesn't have to be the "real", or rather, full Terra (as in all parts of his existence being together) that Aqua meets there.
There are several possibilities like i.e. it being just a projection of Terra's heart (Riku had the very same thing in KH 1 Final Mix walking through the Realm of Darkness while Mickey spoke to him) or it being a memory of the world played out in front of her.
That was prior to the swap to Unreal Engine 4. Anything before December 2014 should be ignored.
Also it's a good thing they swapped engines. With the amount of trouble Luminous apparently is, it's good they can actually make a good game.
I know, I was just providing him with said gif.
Good old times, eh?
Yeah...good old times.....*sits in rocking chair*
I know, I was just providing him with said gif.
Thanks but that's not the shot I am talking about. I will make it when I get home.
It's actually the one when it shows the trio from a bit farther away while the train circles the titan
Let me clarify a couple of things, before things get too heated:
1) I'm trying to start a conversation here about the graphics because I'm interested in game-development in general.
2) I like to be critical of things, rather than just be accepting. There's a clear difference between the visuals pre and post Unreal-jump. This concerns me, as it shows that they're having issues with the engine. Which begs the question: what else are they having trouble with? Are there other things where they needed to compromise in order for them to work with the new engine? Kingdom Hearts games have always been free from major glitches or bugs (or any inconsistencies for that matter) and I hope we can keep it that way. Tell me how these aren't valid concerns.
3) For a series that's been revered for its graphics, is developed by Square-Enix and produced by Disney, yes: I do want something better than this. And for a while, it seemed like we were getting exactly that. Which is exactly why I'm having the concerns that I'm having.
Going "don't buy it if you don't like it" is unneeded, because that's not the conversation I want to have to begin with. If you like the visuals the way they are now, then I'm happy for you. But I'm 99% certain that, looking at other games and the way the visuals looked before the Unreal-jump, this isn't how it's supposed to look or at least not as good as it could be. What I'm doing is being critical of what I eventually will be investing in.
Let's not forget 0.2 is basically a tech demo for Kingdom Hearts 3. If there ever was a time to be critical about anything, now would be the time.
Seriously? I'm just trying to encourage discussion here.
If I learned something in this forum is that you should avoid "discussions" here.
If I learned something in this forum is that you should avoid "discussions" here.
Just because sometimes a few people aren't happy with discussions doesn't mean that the whole forum feels that way. Please.
Seems to me the original engine they were using wasn't matching up to what they were expecting or wanted from the look which is why they changed and have now got the style they were aiming for.
I like the style... it looks good. Still cartoony and in line with the KH universe but shows an improvement on how graphics have changed in the decade or so since KH2.
Looks great, can't wait to hear about the Kingdom Hearts 3 news though. So much for E3 lol.
I actually think Aqua's face and overall model look amazing (even the texture in her wrist fabric looked really neat). Her back's reflection of light does look odd and claylike though, that would be my only nitpick. It's a new style but but it doesn't look terrible (in this trailer at least, I won't say the same for previous ones).
Aqua here reminds me of a better animated Cloe with the blue hair.
Looks great, can't wait to hear about the Kingdom Hearts 3 news though. So much for E3 lol.
Looks great, can't wait to hear about the Kingdom Hearts 3 news though. So much for E3 lol.
Square doesn't want any big news near FF XV's marketing period.
Seems to me the original engine they were using wasn't matching up to what they were expecting or wanted from the look which is why they changed and have now got the style they were aiming for.
I like the style... it looks good. Still cartoony and in line with the KH universe but shows an improvement on how graphics have changed in the decade or so since KH2.
I'm in agreement with this. I like the look, but for those unhappy with the graphics, to which I do understand, we don't know how hold the cuts from this trailer are, and we have about 5 months or so until the game goes gold, which leaves plenty of time for improvement in that respect. The cuts for this trailer could very well be a few months old. There's still a long way to go until KH3 as well, so if there are glaring issues when 2.8 finally releases, I have confidence in Square that they will fix said issues about the lighting and shadows. I don't think it's worth raising a panic over yet, but for those who are concerned, there are a few valid questions. I think I'm the end, it'll be fine.
Square doesn't want any big news near FF XV's marketing period.
So it's pretty much a confirmation that no KH news or trailer will be shown at e3? Not an official word but a technical one.
Aqua looks incredible, kingdom hearts has never strived for realism in the slightest in design. I mean look at their hairstyles for God sakes.... the models look gorgeous, the graphics are orgasmic, and the story line is incomprehensiblely perfect. Stop complaining and just enjoy this treat.
I remember when graphics weren't all that important.
Sorry, but history shows a different picture. People have always cared about graphics and don't even fool yourself into believing otherwise. See also: Every single console war in existence.
Sorry, but history shows a different picture. People have always cared about graphics and don't even fool yourself into believing otherwise. See also: Every single console war in existence.
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.
I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.
I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
Eh. Pokemon is kind of different and even then, I've always wanted a Pokemon game for HD consoles. Also doesn't help that Square really likes to pride itself on its graphical fidelity when it comes to Final Fantasy titles. But you're right, I'd honestly always take good stable framerate over incredible graphics. If KH3 were 900p but 60FPS, I honestly wouldn't mind, but that's just me.
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.
I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
Kingdom Hearts games have always been benchmarks for their respective hardware. 3DS, PS2, PSP, DS, mobile.. all great visually. 0.2 + 3 already looks dated in places.
[FONT=Verdana]
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
Yes, yes, but if we're being realistic, that's where we are. Graphics don't need to be hyper-realistic, but they are held to a certain standard these days. Even when making a game out of sprites, it has to commit to the tone of the genre, simplistic or not.
Also, the animation for both Disney and Kingdom Hearts has been pretty consistent. This is the biggest change the series has had in terms of a general makeover, so the contrast is stark right now. There's this somewhat uncanny valley of believability that's caused a bit of a rift. As far as skin textures, I still think they look like those rubber, bendable figurines, but it's something I think will just take a period of adjustment.
Someone else also pointed out that for years now Disney had perfected the human skin textures for their films, plus we get the renders (which should always be taken with a grain of salt), plus we had the earlier visions of Sora and the gang on the Luminous Engine, so everyone's expectations are pulled in different directions.
For the most part though, everything looks gorgeous and I'm grateful for that.
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.
I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
Maybe because deep in their hearts Pokemon fans know that the graphics are the only thing that are ever going to be in danger of changing in each following entry? They gotta have something to justify their purchase.
As for Squeenix, people are only holding them to the standard they set themselves. These oily models look like early PS3 at times.
I just think it's funny that whenever a new Pokémon game releases many people go "OMG THE GRAPHICS SO CUTE AND NICE :333" and when it's a Square Enix game, even the mini-mini-est of mistakes is pointed somehow.
I mean, it's anyone's choice if he likes it or not, I just feel people are extremely harsh with graphic in SE games.
Apples to oranges. While Pokémon has changed its art style, the games still make the Pokémon look cartoony and cute. A fair comparison would be Pokémon using the unreal engine to make hyper realistic designs. Also Pokémon players as a whole don't care that much for graphics so long as it's consistent and matches the theme of the games.
I agree with king_mickey rule, the shading of the human character models is way too shiny. And as someone who has played around with the shaders in Unreal Engine 4, I can tell you this is not because of the engine's limitations.
This is what Unreal Engine 4 is capable of:
https://youtu.be/tyEF6bPm4ps?t=91
And anyone who has played recent games on the ps4 should know it isn't the consoles limitations either (even the ps3 wouldn't have had much of a problem with overly shiny models).
The only reasons for the current plastic look, that I can think of, are:
[LIST]
[*]They're waiting to make the final shaders to match the surroundings and the current look is just a placeholder.
[*]Or the art director really goofed up in which case I hope SE listens to the feedback from the fans.
[/LIST]
Further rambling:
Of course Kingdom Hearts isn't going for realism, but I don't get how making the models unnecessarily shiny makes anything look more cartoony. It actually does the opposite.
For an example of a game that found a nice balance between realism and style: Bioshock Infinite really did it right.
It is hard to compare the new shaders to the original style of the previous games because those earlier games didn't really have any actual shading like most games have today.
There was no actual lighting so everything was painted on. This limitation actually gave the artists a lot of artistic control over how everything looked. They didn't have to worry much about how models looked in different lighting. And because the same painting techniques could be used in 3D as in 2D, it was a lot easier to match Disney's style and create a very pretty looking game (with the help of very talented artists!)
Introducing actual lighted models would drastically change the look of the games and this is why I was so amazed at how well they did managed to keep the original spirit with modern technology in the earliest trailers for kh3.
Bark bark bark, bark. Bark.
Kingdom Hearts games have always been benchmarks for their respective hardware. 3DS, PS2, PSP, DS, mobile.. all great visually. 0.2 + 3 already looks dated in places.
This.
It's not like we expect realism from Kingdom Hearts games either, as someone earlier seemed to suggest. What we do expect, though, is visual consistency. The graphics from the reveal had that consistency and genuinely looked like a next-gen version of Kingdom Hearts graphics and even looked exactly like current Disney movies.
The environments look great, for the most part, but those aren't the issue here. The characters are, they stick out. Example:
[spoiler="KH 0.2 - Aqua - Castle of Dreams"]
[/spoiler]Compare her model with the stone bridge/road she's about to land on. Notice how huge the difference is, not only in lighting, but also in texture detail. It's almost as if the model's being lit by an extra lighting source, other than its surroundings. It's weird and takes the viewer out of it. Another example:
[spoiler="KH X Back Cover - NPC's"]
[/spoiler]Sure, these are minor characters, but the engine renders them in the same, ugly way. I see almost no texture-work here either. Also notice how the hair looks like they're placed on top of the head of the characters, like a wig. These are all Final Fantasy-esque characters, where Square's strength lies. God knows how the Disney characters are gonna look.
Welp.
It was only a matter of time before everyone started grabbing the pitchforks I guess.
I'll be over here an a state of dazed wonder for now. My expectations were MUCH lower than what we got, really.
Welp.
It was only a matter of time before everyone started grabbing the pitchforks I guess.
I'll be over here an a state of dazed wonder for now. My expectations were MUCH lower than what we got, really.
Maybe that's my "problem" as well.
I didn't expect this to look as great as it does (to me), so naturally, I'm pretty happy.
If I learned something in this forum is that you should avoid "discussions" here.
well we pretty much have this exact same discussion every time there is a trailer.
Maybe that's my "problem" as well.
I didn't expect this to look as great as it does (to me), so naturally, I'm pretty happy.
I also figure there's really not much that can be done to make this look "good."
Keep it looking like the older games, people will be mad.
Change it to something updated and different, and people will be mad.
Make it look kinda stylized and less textured like the old and people hate it.
Give it tons of detail and texture and suddenly it's too realistic.
Me, I care about as much as this guy
when it comes to high-quality graphics. I grew up with Pokemon as my gold standard and I was impressed by Re:Coded. So yeah. Bring it on. Take my munny already, this looks beautiful.
Then again, not everyone is low-standard fandom trash like meee~
I also figure there's really not much that can be done to make this look "good."
Keep it looking like the older games, people will be mad.
Change it to something updated and different, and people will be mad.
Make it look kinda stylized and less textured like the old and people hate it.
Give it tons of detail and texture and suddenly it's too realistic.
Me, I care about as much as this guy
when it comes to high-quality graphics. I grew up with Pokemon as my gold standard and I was impressed by Re:Coded. So yeah. Bring it on. Take my munny already, this looks beautiful.
Then again, not everyone is low-standard fandom trash like meee~
hoslty i dont care for graphics at all i care for mostly the story and gameplay and that it and those grapics were fin for me
Is that deymx in the hood?
Im low-standard fandom trash. In fact I barely have standards.
hoslty i dont care for graphics at all i care for mostly the story and gameplay and that it and those grapics were fin for me
We should make idgaf!Coaty our mascot. :D
Aaaanyways, on an unrelated note, does anyone feel much more suspicious of Aced now? Every time there's a scene with "conflict" in it, he's always up in there, front and center, usually as an active participant. Pissing off Ira, seeming to strike down Gula (and it felt like Aced was threatening him, despite Gula being the one with the drawn weapon), dueling Ivy... He seems to be quite the troublemaker.
Is that deymx in the hood?
100% no.
We should make idgaf!Coaty our mascot. :D
Aaaanyways, on an unrelated note, does anyone feel much more suspicious of Aced now? Every time there's a scene with "conflict" in it, he's always up in there, front and center, usually as an active participant. Pissing off Ira, seeming to strike down Gula (and it felt like Aced was threatening him, despite Gula being the one with the drawn weapon), dueling Ivy... He seems to be quite the troublemaker.
Honestly, I believe that Gula is nothing more than a Red Herring. He's essentially like a Dexter: wiping out fellow Foreteller's to cancel out the traitor. I think he's doing this out of fear as opposed to being suspicious. The guy is so adamant in hunting down the traitor to the extent that he's willing to defy The Master of Masters to keep Daybreak Town safe. I'm hinging my bets on Master Ira being the traitor. He seem to be the most informed out of the bunch in the trailer and is most dependent on conversing with the Organization cloak character (at least with what we've seen from the trailers), plus, why is the pupils of his mask red?
Edit: In this response, I meant Master Aced (Ursus) not Master Gula (Leopardos).
Honestly, I believe that Gula is nothing more than a Red Herring. He's essentially like a Dexter: wiping out fellow Foreteller's to cancel out the traitor. I think he's doing this out of fear as opposed to being suspicious. The guy is so adamant in hunting down the traitor to the extent that he's willing to defy The Master of Masters to keep Daybreak Town safe. I'm hinging my bets on Master Ira being the traitor. He seem to be the most informed out of the bunch in the trailer and is most dependent on conversing with the Organization cloak character (at least with what we've seen from the trailers), plus, why is the pupils of his mask red?
Uh? Gula didn't do much besides confront Aced (and promptly get wiped out) and kinda lurk near Ava.
It's true that Ira is the only one we've seen conversing with Coaty, but that happens only once. Aced being in the middle of trouble, though? Three times in a single brief trailer.
As for the eyes... red often = anger. Kinda goes with the theme, y'know? While we're at it, let's ask why everyone else's masks have golden eyes.
I just got home and me my brother watched the trailer. I was like, "HOLY SHH*****TTTT!!! DIDDLY YESSSSSS!!!!!!!! THANK YOUUUU NOMURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Honestly, I believe that Gula is nothing more than a Red Herring. He's essentially like a Dexter: wiping out fellow Foreteller's to cancel out the traitor. I think he's doing this out of fear as opposed to being suspicious. The guy is so adamant in hunting down the traitor to the extent that he's willing to defy The Master of Masters to keep Daybreak Town safe. I'm hinging my bets on Master Ira being the traitor. He seem to be the most informed out of the bunch in the trailer and is most dependent on conversing with the Organization cloak character (at least with what we've seen from the trailers), plus, why is the pupils of his mask red?
I completely agree with you here. We were actually having a discussion about mysterious characters in the writing section of the forum yesterday, and the key is to not make your mysterious character so obvious. There is no way that they made it so obvious in the trailer that Gula is the traitor, when in fact nobody outside of the developers know yet. He's so bent on eradicating everyone else, that I too doubt it is him. I support the Ira theory as of now, too. There are a lot of smaller hints there that you mentioned that could potentially indicate it in a less obvious way as Gula. Granted, it is all just speculation and guessing, as it could be literally any one of them. We don't truly have enough clues to make a perfectly educated guess anyway.
Uh? Gula didn't do much besides confront Aced (and promptly get wiped out) and kinda lurk near Ava.
It's true that Ira is the only one we've seen conversing with Coaty, but that happens only once. Aced being in the middle of trouble, though? Three times in a single brief trailer.
As for the eyes... red often = anger. Kinda goes with the theme, y'know? While we're at it, let's ask why Aced's mask has yellow eyes.
This is what I meant with Master Ira's pupils. Why is he the only Foreteller to have his pupils changed? it's so subtle it's suspicious. And as far as Master Aced goes, him being in trouble three times in the trailer is an ideal red herring situation. It wouldn't be much of a mystery if the true traitor was that obvious.
But again, I am judging this on this particular trailer. If another trailer comes and diversifies the character dynamics with each Foreteller then maybe I'll change my mind, but for now, Master Ira seems most suspicious.
Edit: In my inital response, I meant Master Aced (Ursus) not Master Gula.
This is what I meant with Master Ira's pupils. Why is he the only Foreteller to have his pupils changed? it's so subtle it's suspicious. And as far as Master Aced goes, him being in trouble three times in the trailer is an ideal red herring situation. It wouldn't be much of a mystery if the true traitor was that obvious.
But again, I am judging this on this particular trailer. If another trailer comes and diversifies the character dynamics with each Foreteller then maybe I'll change my mind, but for now, Master Ira seems most suspicious.
Edit: In my inital response, I meant Master Aced (Ursus) not Master Gula.
Ohh, I see what you mean now. I forgot that Ira had golden eyes in KHX and UX before... hm, that does raise some questions. Small details like eye color are rarely arbitrary in KH.
I'm still going with the old hypothesis that there is NO traitor and this is all one big self-fulfilling prophecy, helped along by the Coaty duo, though.
So excited for this. I agree about the lighting though. People can be very excited but still be disappointed about a certain things. People can feel more than one thing at once, you know. Noting the plastic-y look doesn't mean that we aren't still extremely hyped overall. It's just that we got something different than expected. People will definitely comment on that.
Anyways, what they showed before was a painted aesthetic. That seems to be still what they are aiming for in KH 3, so I don't think we should get worried. You can see that that asthetic was kept in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7iO5SVlBpxI (I don't agree with most of what the guy says, except for that part where Sora's hair is very shiny at several points (I think round 1:19 in the original trailer), but it shows the differences very well.). The lighting in general just seems really off compared to what has been shown of KH 3, but as long as that isn't going to be the final look, I'm happy. They've made a lot of progress.
And what I'm excited about, since I do want to keep up the hype, and there is a lot to be excited over: The backgrounds are absolutely amazing. The clouds and stuff makes them look like an actual sky. I was very thoroughly impressed. And the twisted landscape in Aqua's scene was really neat. Those chunks hanging in the air created a cool atmosphere. And the particle effects! Beautiful. That ice spell... I also like how they brought that shadow cloud into the game. I was disappointed when it was said to be just a concept trailer, so to actually be able to fight it is both completely unexpected and a dream come true. The mechanics in that fight look really neat. They appear to have put a lot of thought into them. And Terra! He's not at all high on the list of characters I was expecting to see. I wonder what form he'll appear in. Back Cover was my favorite part, suprisingly. The lighting is still funky, but it's less noticeable. And everything else was utterly amazing. The black coat guy (he's holding a dandelion, yikes, but we know it isn't Ephermera because he has a different voice), seeing everyone in 3d, hearing everyone voiced for the first time, the plot, Ava!!!!!! and Ephermera!!!!!!, the backgrounds, the lines (dialogue seems really, really good this time), and just everything! I'm very excited, in case you couldn't tell. :b
Also, Aqua sounds like she's close to hitting her breaking point. :( And the black coat guy reminds me of Demyx for sone reason. Idk why. The Foretellers sound much younger than I expected. Ava sounds Ephermera's age, for example. I wonder if that is actually the case or it's just a Japanese thing.
Edit: wow the thread advanced far while I was typing.
Ohh, I see what you mean now. I forgot that Ira had golden eyes in KHX and UX before... hm, that does raise some questions. Small details like eye color are rarely arbitrary in KH.
I'm still going with the old hypothesis that there is NO traitor and this is all one big self-fulfilling prophecy, helped along by the Coaty duo, though.
This is what I meant with Master Ira's pupils. Why is he the only Foreteller to have his pupils changed? it's so subtle it's suspicious. And as far as Master Aced goes, him being in trouble three times in the trailer is an ideal red herring situation. It wouldn't be much of a mystery if the true traitor was that obvious.
But again, I am judging this on this particular trailer. If another trailer comes and diversifies the character dynamics with each Foreteller then maybe I'll change my mind, but for now, Master Ira seems most suspicious.
Edit: In my inital response, I meant Master Aced (Ursus) not Master Gula.
This is actually funny, because when I quoted you I made the SAME EXACT mistake when referring to Aced. Whoops.
I just got home and me my brother watched the trailer. I was like, "HOLY SHH*****TTTT!!! DIDDLY YESSSSSS!!!!!!!! THANK YOUUUU NOMURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Same reaction when I first saw it. It was totally rad, and I've watched it countless times since my first viewing this morning.
I'm just wondering what normal Terra was doing in the realm of darkness? Maybe so much time has passed for her that he's already been recovered and he's saving her, but I feel like them meeting whould have been for dramatic if that was the case
100% no.
They just want us to think Terra is in the Realm of Darkness, but it's actually Terra's pants.
Terra's pants have come back to haunt Queen Aqua.
This is what I meant with Master Ira's pupils. Why is he the only Foreteller to have his pupils changed?
The eyes on Invi's mask also go from yellow to greenish.
At this point I still think it could be a design decision based on ruby on Ira's mask and the fact that all the gold clashes with the yellow eyes too.
Maybe he really is the traitor, maybe he isn't, I still think they are all set up.
The eyes on Invi's mask also go from yellow to greenish.
At this point I still think it could be a design decision based on ruby on Ira's mask and the fact that all the gold clashes with the yellow eyes too.
Maybe he really is the traitor, maybe he isn't, I still think they are all set up.
Master Gula's design is primarily yellow and I don't see any clashes so I personally think it's intentional rather than technical.
Of course, I'm not doubting the influence that the people in the Organization cloaks have with the chain of events, I just feel as though one of the five is setting themselves out to be a traitor. Who exactly was it that said there was a traitor in the first place? was it the Book of Prophecies or the Master of Masters? I always get confused as to who spoke of the traitor in the first place.
Man, Unicornis master race. No matter the eye color.
Master Gula's design is primarily yellow and I don't see any clashes so I personally think it's intentional rather than technical.
Of course, I'm not doubting the influence that the people in the Organization cloaks have with the chain of events, I just feel as though one of the five is setting themselves out to be a traitor. Who exactly was it that said there was a traitor in the first place? was it the Book of Prophecies or the Master of Masters? I always get confused as to who spoke of the traitor in the first place.
What about Ava, though? Her mask still has golden eyes, but her color scheme is mostly pink.
... I gotta say though, after letting it sink in after a while, those 3D, HD models of the Foretellers' Keyblades are looking gooooooooooood~
What about Ava, though? Her mask still has golden eyes, but her color scheme is mostly pink.
... I gotta say though, after letting it sink in after a while, those 3D, HD models of the Foretellers' Keyblades are looking gooooooooooood~
Yes to this. They're so nice, such a (probably obvious) radical change from last generation's keyblades. They don't look awkward at all.
Master Gula's design is primarily yellow and I don't see any clashes so I personally think it's intentional rather than technical.
Of course, I'm not doubting the influence that the people in the Organization cloaks have with the chain of events, I just feel as though one of the five is setting themselves out to be a traitor. Who exactly was it that said there was a traitor in the first place? was it the Book of Prophecies or the Master of Masters? I always get confused as to who spoke of the traitor in the first place.
Even if there really is a "traitor" among them it is still possible that it is a huge setup with the "traitor" not actually turning traitorous out of ill intent or actual malice but because of being deliberately being fed with misinformation and possibly being driven to a corner by the true string-pullers, one of them being Apocalypse-Coaty I'm almost sure.
Who knows, maybe Apocalypse-Coaty is just setting this up as a completely deliberate huge game for his own shits and giggles or to prove something with the Foretellers being given an actual slim chance to avoid complete disaster, but him working deliberately to destroy that small chance and skillfully driving all five paranoid and insane over time.
In the trailer we only see him interact with Ira, but that doesn't mean he isn't meeting with the others as well at different points and maybe feeding each of them a different story about what is the truth and what not.
Am I the only one who hears 2 voices for the black coat? Either that or the guy is one hell of a voice actor.
Am I the only one who hears 2 voices for the black coat? Either that or the guy is one hell of a voice actor.
No, you're not. Seems a lot of us think that dandelion!Coaty and idgaf!Coaty are two different people. I personally think the more serious-looking one is the Master of Masters that Nomura had mentioned earlier. The other one... maybe he's the sixth. Or maybe this is a split personality thing. OR MAYBE HE HAS A SPLIT PERSONALITY BECAUSE IT'S TWO PEOPLE STUCK IN ONE BODY, LITERALLY.
... All speculation, of course.
I didn't watch it yet but people said the japanese trailer is not ambiguous at all, you can clearly tell they're the same person.
Am I the only one who hears 2 voices for the black coat? Either that or the guy is one hell of a voice actor.
It is the same voice. They seem to be hamming it up around Unicornis but are actually really serious. In Japanese it is pretty obvious it is the same voice.
Yes, it seems as though they're adding an extra bit of shine to Aqua's character when I don't think it's necessary. I really think it's the lighting and less wrong with the character model. I say this because there are some spots where the lighting is fine and I think she looks gorgeous!
But then there's other where it looks... a little awkward for some reason... It's like they're not lighting her to fit her surroundings.
On the other hand, I don't feel this way at all during her battle sequences. Her lighting looks just right?
That said, the lighting in Backcover looks absolutely spot on perfect. ? They don't look like toys randomly plopped into an environment. For example:
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
They don't have that... 'shine' on them. If they just take the shine of Aqua's skin and a little off her hair, I think it'd look just fine. I"m really fine with it either way, but I can't help but be a little bothered by it even when I try to ignore it. Maybe they're 'shiny' because they are the playable characters and need to stick out more. Maybe they decided to go with this ultra shiny look because it will be strange enough to fit in all the worlds they have planned. I don't really know.
But everything else is great. Environments look AMAZING, so detailed, it feels like we're really there. Great animations! I hope they switch out Sora's goofy waterfall animation with something more reasonable like Aqua's slide. Aqua's voice acting on point~ ???
If shine on the character's skin is the only thing people have to complain about, I don't know why people seem so fussy. At least it's not the constant whining about "KH3 KH3 WHO CARES ABOUT THIS STUFF". Now that is worth the annoyed attitudes.
Yes, it seems as though they're adding an extra bit of shine to Aqua's character when I don't think it's necessary. I really think it's the lighting and less wrong with the character model. I say this because there are some spots where the lighting is fine and I think she looks gorgeous!
But then there's other where it looks... a little awkward for some reason... It's like they're not lighting her to fit her surroundings.
On the other hand, I don't feel this way at all during her battle sequences. Her lighting looks just right?
That said, the lighting in Backcover looks absolutely spot on perfect. �� They don't look like toys randomly plopped into an environment. For example:
They don't have that... 'shine' on them. If they just take the shine of Aqua's skin and a little off her hair, I think it'd look just fine. I"m really fine with it either way, but I can't help but be a little bothered by it even when I try to ignore it. Maybe they're 'shiny' because they are the playable characters and need to stick out more. Maybe they decided to go with this ultra shiny look because it will be strange enough to fit in all the worlds they have planned. I don't really know.
But everything else is great. Environments look AMAZING, so detailed, it feels like we're really there. Great animations! I hope they switch out Sora's goofy waterfall animation with something more reasonable like Aqua's slide. Aqua's voice acting on point~
If shine on the character's skin is the only thing people have to complain about, I don't know why people seem so fussy. At least it's not the constant whining about "KH3 KH3 WHO CARES ABOUT THIS STUFF". Now that is worth the annoyed attitudes.
There is something really weird going on with lighting in 0.2 . Aqua has no shadow... at all! She doesn't seem to affect or be affected from the environmental lightning at all. The only instance she has a "self" (= her own head casting a shadow on her body) shadow I can find is when Terra appears. Her keyblade transformation casts light though and I think some of her attacks do as well.
0.2 looks unfinished from that respect. I don't know if it's an old build of the game, they minimised shadows for maximum performance or they simply haven't implemented every shader/haven't fully figured the lightning properties, but yeah, to me it looks unfinished.
Since some of the scenes from the Back Cover part of the trailer already appeared in [chi]/Unchained I think the movie's story is truly parallel to the game's story and we'll get more glimpses of what's really going on here in the next updates.
For example, the scene where Aced (seemingly) strikes down Gula is happening in the warehouse at the market, our player will probably witness it too.
Master Gula's design is primarily yellow and I don't see any clashes so I personally think it's intentional rather than technical.
You're right, but his mask isn't yellow, that's why the yellow eyes also fit there. You could also analyze the Union logos where Ursus is the only animal with red eyes and Unicornis the only one with yellow eyes.
There is something really weird going on with lighting in 0.2 . Aqua has no shadow... at all! She doesn't seem to affect or be affected from the environmental lightning at all. The only instance she has a "self" (= her own head casting a shadow on her body) shadow I can find is when Terra appears. Her keyblade transformation casts light though and I think some of her attacks do as well.
0.2 looks unfinished from that respect. I don't know if it's an old build of the game, they minimised shadows for maximum performance or they simply haven't implemented every shader/haven't fully figured the lightning properties, but yeah, to me it looks unfinished.
Ye, it's very possible that this isn't the final stage of the game or a version that they've already improved upon. Maybe it's the lack of shadow that's bothering me other than the shine. I don't know. Something is just a litttttttle bit off and I feel like it can be tweaked just a tad and everything will be a-ok.
It's not a super huge deal, it won't stop me from buying a game about my queen, I just don't want them to rush it out and neglect something simple like a shadow.
Ye, it's very possible that this isn't the final stage of the game or a version that they've already improved upon. Maybe it's the lack of shadow that's bothering me other than the shine. I don't know. Something is just a litttttttle bit off and I feel like it can be tweaked just a tad and everything will be a-ok.
It's not a super huge deal, it won't stop me from buying a game about my queen, I just don't want them to rush it out and neglect something simple like a shadow.
You are correct in the thought that the clips seen in the trailer are not the finished product. Developers cut what they need for the trailers weeks, sometimes months, before the trailer actually airs. We don't know exactly how much the game's visuals have advanced since the trailer was put together. The game still has 5 months or so until it goes gold (or is completed and ready for production, for those who might be unaware), which is plenty of time to finish what's left, as well as add on layers of polish and straighten out visual bumps, such as the minor lighting and shadowing issues. Although we don't know how much actual development the game has remaining, we can imagine that much of the time left will be used for polishing things like gameplay and visuals, as well as ironing out any bugs or glitches. By the time we get the game in our hands, it will likely look better than it does now, and it already doesn't look bad at all.
Yes. Even if this version was pushed out, I'd be ok with it despite my grievances. I hope they use the rest of the cycle wisely, that's all I ask.
Yes. Even if this version was pushed out, I'd be ok with it despite my grievances. I hope they use the rest of the cycle wisely, that's all I ask.
I certainly would not complain if what was shown is what we get, but I'm sure that's not the case. I have faith that this will look stellar.
I really like Aqua's hair and eyes and the way she moves.
But I'm still baffled by the models and how out of place they look in general. I just can't get into it, and that's disheartening for me because cutscenes are one of the things I most look forward to in a KH game.
I cant believe they released the trailer with her hair looking like that. I hope they fix this :frown:
What's wrong with her hair?
I actually like her hair. Don't see any problem there tbh
I actually like her hair. Don't see any problem there tbh
What's wrong with her hair?
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
So she's got some split ends. Don't we all? :P
Looks like a minor touch-up matter to me. Be nice if it could look better (ain't that always the case) but it's not gonna break the game for me.
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
That's just a minor thing if ya ask me. Also, isn't it like that in all video games? (Some more some less)
FFXV Charas also have split ends, but I see no one complain about that. ^^'
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
That's quite common in a lot of games, I just accepted it lol
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
It might be on purpose. Because Sora doesn't look like that.
Yeah lots of games, even on the PS4 and such, have those kinds of pixelated edges on certain objects and textures.
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
That's a common thing in video games. It's not much of a big deal.
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
Yeah, those are so called "jaggies" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggies). The presence of them means they still haven't applied any anti-aliasing on the hair (the rest of the model looks fine in that regard, from what I can tell). That's an issue they'll solve eventually. Either that or they legitimately think that's a good look on hair, but I highly doubt that.
Wellp, seems like they slightly changed the gameplay.
I like the japanese one more, I don't know why, haha.
[x]
Japanese and English Kingdom Hearts have always had different controls, so it's likely that they just ran the different versions for the different trailers. Which is cool to me.
The footage recorded was from live playing on a regular PS4 instead of automatic gameplay on PC (or usually in Kingdom Hearts case, Japanese gameplay with a static English HUB over the top).
0.2 is in a playable stage and will be at E3. What you saw today is very likely what you will be playing in 6 months. The differences in the trailers confirm this as well.
The footage recorded was from live playing on a regular PS4 instead of automatic gameplay on PC (or usually in Kingdom Hearts case, Japanese gameplay with a static English HUB over the top).
0.2 is in a playable stage and will be at E3. What you saw today is very likely what you will be playing in 6 months. The differences in the trailers confirm this as well.
In layman's terms For those who might not understand. Most of what you said I didn't understand, but from what you're saying is we can't judge from trailers alone, especially very minor things like not perfect little hairs on models.
In layman's terms For those who might not understand. Most of what you said I didn't understand, but from what you're saying is we can't judge from trailers alone, especially very minor things like not perfect little hairs on models.
What I'm saying is this is proper footage captured on Playstation 4 with someone controlling Aqua showing that 0.2 is fully playable on consoles right now rather than it being on a PC that isn't a real representative of what the game will look and feel like on consoles (such as all Kingdom Hearts 3 trailers).
And usually Kingdom Hearts trailers, if the trailer comes out at the same time, generally has gameplay captured from Japan and either foregoes a HUD or has an English HUD graphic slapped over the top.
How can people complain about the graphics? It's just like the old cg cutscenes lol even for the "plastic" characters.
Look at the opening of BbS for example, and compare Aqua's model with the one of II.8
The only thing that I don't really like are Aqua's shoulders that look like they miss some polygons, for everything else is just perfect, at least for me.
Thats what's wrong with her hair. Can't you see it?
oh god
you're right
oh god
you're right
You did not seriously just .
oh god
you're right
No....not that....keep that away from my Aqua.
oh god
you're right
banned .
You did not seriously just .
I don't get it...........
I don't get it...........
And you don't want to.
It's just a weird abomination of an "anime".
guys this website is supposed to be pg please no more talk of the bane of this world
boku nort riku .
boku nort riku .
STAHP IT CHUMAN STAHP PLEASE
Has anyone considered that Aqua's looking weird might be intentional by the staff?
I'm probably way off, but since Back Cover looks pretty near perfect I thought I'd bring up the possibility.
Like, maybe she doesn't look like she belongs in (or matches with) the Realm of Darkness because she truly doesn't.
Her model is all light and shiny compared to the darkness, as she's "the light in the darkness", that the DDD secret ending refers to her as.
IDK. Just some food for thought.
I really don't think this is the case, tbh. But if I can pretend that it is (if 0.2's look doesn't end up changing much from the way that it is now), I'd be more than fine with it.
Even though I'm mostly A-Okay with the graphics as they are now, and think they actually look better than what I was expecting.
Has anyone considered that Aqua's looking weird might be intentional by the staff?
I'm probably way off, but since Back Cover looks pretty near perfect I thought I'd bring up the possibility.
Like, maybe she doesn't look like she belongs in (or matches with) the Realm of Darkness because she truly doesn't.
Her model is all light and shiny compared to the darkness, as she's "the light in the darkness", that the DDD secret ending refers to her as.
IDK. Just some food for thought.
I really don't think this is the case, tbh. But if I can pretend that it is (if 0.2's look doesn't end up changing much from the way that it is now), I'd be more than fine with it.
Even though I'm mostly A-Okay with the graphics as they are now, and think they actually look better than what I was expecting.
I was thinking of something like that, but more for practical reasons than thematic ones. Having the player character stand out against the scenery like that could make them more difficult to lose in the action.
I was thinking of something like that, but more for practical reasons than thematic ones. Having the player character stand out against the scenery like that could make them more difficult to lose in the action.
I wouldn't mind that at all if that was what they were aiming for, honestly:)
I still have nightmares about fighting Repliku in the GBA version of CoM, and not being able to tell the difference between him and my Riku when he was in dark mode, so if the Osaka team is trying to fight against anything like that happening again I'm honestly more than grateful.
Especially since it looks like treasure chests are really blending in in 0.2, and even somewhat III, and might be hard to catch. I certainly don't want the same thing to happen with Aqua. LOL.
I'm 99% sure that it's just the painted style Nomura wanted. Which, fine. I'm getting more used to it every time it pops up, I like it alright. It's also actually pretty inline with Disney canon, having the simple characters against detailed backgrounds. It just looked a lot smoother on the other engine.
KH fanbase: "we'll like trash if it's official and Nomura says it's ok".
KH fanbase: "we'll like trash if it's official and Nomura says it's ok".
I like it because I like it, I'm just saying it's intentional. You don't have to be an ass.
KH fanbase: "we'll like trash if it's official and Nomura says it's ok".
"Because everything I don't like but others warm up to HAS to be trash".
I like it because I like it, I'm just saying it's intentional. You don't have to be an ass.
It wasn't directed at you personally, just a general observation.
"Because everything I don't like but others warm up to HAS to be trash".
No, because 0.2's graphics are objectively subpar.
No, because 0.2's graphics are objectively subpar.
Alright, because I'm feeling too lazy to scroll through the last hundred pages of this thread, remind me: what sorta standards are we judging this by again? And how are they "objectively" subpar?
Alright, because I'm feeling too lazy to scroll through the last hundred pages of this thread, remind me: what sorta standards are we judging this by again? And how are they "objectively" subpar?
"We" are judging it on what other AAA games of this generation do in the graphics department and this games doesn't.
"We" are judging it on what other AAA games of this generation do in the graphics department and this games doesn't.
Yes, AAA titles such as...? I mean, if you compare a game like this to one that leans more heavily towards realism and detail, it's not surprising that KH would appear to be "inferior" in that field. Give me a little more context, or I might end up missing your point. -.-
KH1 had the dreaded fish face all over the place and isn't considered the paragon of PS2 graphics, but I don't hear anyone calling that game trash...
This discussion is starting to remind me of the arguments that sprung up with the first two seasons of SMC, when comparing it to the source material.
Can we all just agree that both styles have their good and bad parts, and that preferring one over the other just really depends on the person. "Beauty's in the eye of the beholder", and all that.
Anyway, I like the look of everything now. It's a happy medium between realism and cartoony, imo, as KH has always strived to do. They're just doing it in a slightly different way here. In fact, I think it'll look really good with things like Toy Story if it's to show up.
And can I just say that I've ALWAYS thought the characters looked like plastic in CG? Like, the one KHII official art--with everyone sitting on that Hollow Bastion mountain--really makes them all look like ceramic dolls to me.
And that one shot of Aqua in the BbS intro, where she holds her hand over her heart and the camera suddenly zooms in on her, has always been uncanny valley to me and freaked me out for some reason. I certainly prefer her new look over that, but to each their own.
I love the new graphics because they're great. AND THEY MADE AQUA LOOK GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD~
Yes, AAA titles such as...? I mean, if you compare a game like this to one that leans more heavily towards realism and detail, it's not surprising that KH would appear to be "inferior" in that field. Give me a little more context or I'll probably end up missing your point. -.-
KH1 had the dreaded fish face all over the place and isn't considered the paragon of PS2 graphics, but I don't hear anyone calling that game trash...
KH2 also had fish faces and that game is a masterpiece visually. It's still a showcase for PCSX2. This isn't about small details.
I am not comparing the actual "look" of the game. I am comparing the graphics, the underlying technology of the game.
Kingdom Hearts has always had the benefit of having a non-realistic art-style. Games like this benefit immensely graphically compared to other, "realistic" games exactly because, in many ways, they don't try to imitate real life. They use simpler shapes and textures to create something that is beautiful and yet, light on resources. They can then use those resources for things like better image quality or more enemies on screen, better AI etc.
For example, hair. Hair is traditionally resource-heavy to simulate. Kingdom Hearts has never had this problem because no one has "real" hair. They are huge "chunks" of a solid material. Same goes for their skin. While other games have to simulate skin pores, facial hair, wrinkles etc etc, KH never had to do this, not realistically.
[SPOILER]
[/SPOILER]Still.. with all the cut corners, the game still has huge problems, visually. Dynamic shadows are non-existent for the most part, translucency and subsurface scattering are the same way and lightning in general is what - a generation, one and a half behind?
How on earth can a much more realistic character than Aqua like Noctis look so much like his CGI counterpart
and Aqua, with many many advantages graphically look like someone's class project? Skin, hair, clothes... it's all very very lacking.
Is it better than before? Yes.
Is it a 2-gen leap worth of awesomeness, something to drool over? God no.
[SPOILER]
.png/revision/latest?cb=20100620050155)
[/SPOILER]
The KH3 trailer from Jump Festa looked fantastic to me in the graphics department, but all the previous trailers I was iffy about. So, I think it just has to do with the amount of polish or lack thereof depending on when they show it. 0.2 will probably look fine once it's out. I'm sure it's not 100% done yet. Either that or 0.2 will look a bit rushed and KH3 will look up to snuff, which I am fine with. Rather have 0.2 look not perfect for 1-2 hours than KH3 look weird for 40 or more.
Can we all just agree that both styles have their good and bad parts, and that preferring one over the other just really depends on the person. "Beauty's in the eye of the beholder", and all that.
If every discussion was quickly ended with "Can we all just agree" then we wouldn't have thousands of posts on here from many users in debates, discussions, and arguments.
Lnds has a valid argument, yes. As do all the people with conflicting opinions. But absolutely hash it out. You might not ever reach an agreement, but the fun you guys will have is irreplaceable.
Also, feel free to make a topic for this if there isn't one already! I would love to see everyone's opinions there!
KH fanbase: "we'll like trash if it's official and Nomura says it's ok".
Look. if you don't like the new graphics, that's fine. But calling it trash and "generalizing" the fanbase (for the lack of a better word) like that is not okay at all. -.-
If every discussion was quickly ended with "Can we all just agree" then we wouldn't have thousands of posts on here from many users in debates, discussions, and arguments.
Lnds has a valid argument, yes. As do all the people with conflicting opinions. But absolutely hash it out. You might not ever reach an agreement, but the fun you guys will have is irreplaceable.
Also, feel free to make a topic for this if there isn't one already! I would love to see everyone's opinions there!
Yeah, sorry if my post came off as me trying to stop the discussion. I just noted that it was getting a little heated here and I didn't want people to seriously start getting hurt feelings over it all, so I just tried to point out that we're all right in some form here^_^
But seriously, go on and discuss, guys! That's actually one of my favorite things about this site. And this topic in general is bringing up some interesting things I never would've thought of myself, as I really don't care about graphics that much (which is weird, because I only got into gaming with the PS2--a very pretty looking era--and SE is my game company and they're so known for such good graphics), but honestly game characters could look like stick figures and I wouldn't care. Just give me a good story and gameplay in something and I'm sold, at least. #probablywhytheffviigraphicsdontbotherme
Look. if you don't like the new graphics, that's fine. But calling it trash and "generalizing" the fanbase (for the lack of a better word) like that is not okay at all. -.-
Here's the thing, though, we're comparing it objectively, based on several examples where the graphics DO look right. This isn't about whether or not the style looks right, it's about the technology behind the visuals and how they hold up against other current games that have a similar visual style. Like Lnds says: it's very lacking on that department, whereas previous Kingdom Hearts games didn't and always managed to get the best out of the consoles.
If you want examples of other products with similar visuals: Ratchet & Clank, Overwatch, all the recent Disney movies, Disney Infinity (RIP), ...
Heck, if we wanna keep it the discussion solely about Kingdom Hearts: the examples Lnds shows here are all the proof you need to see how inferior current in-game graphics are, compared to CGI versions of the same character. All the problems we mention are with the lighting.
There are a load of reasons to believe the current look isn't what they initially envisioned, based on earlier pre-rendered visuals. Like I've said before, this could mean two things:
1) they're still very much polishing said visuals
2) they're having issues with the engine
If case 2 is true, then there's quite a lot to worry about. That would not be a situation where we should sit down and just accept whatever we're offered. It's easy to call something "the creator's creative choice", but in this case it wouldn't make sense whatsoever. Blind hating is one thing, blind following is another. Be critical instead, and you'll notice the inconsistencies we talk about.
Here's the thing, though, we're comparing it objectively, based on several examples where the graphics DO look right. This isn't about whether or not the style looks right, it's about the technology behind the visuals and how they hold up against other current games that have a similar visual style. Like Lnds says: it's very lacking on that department, whereas previous Kingdom Hearts games didn't and always managed to get the best out of the consoles.
If you want examples of other products with similar visuals: Ratchet & Clank, Overwatch, all the recent Disney movies, Disney Infinity (RIP), ...
The examples Lnds shows are all the proof you need to see how inferior current in-game graphics are, compared to CGI versions of the same character. All the problems we mention are with the lighting.
There are a load of reasons to believe the current look isn't what they initially envisioned, based on earlier pre-rendered visuals. Like I've said before, this could mean two things:
1) they're still very much polishing said visuals
2) they're having issues with the engine
If case 2 is true, then there's quite a lot to worry about.
Or 3) They're not aiming for it to look as great as Final Fantasy XV does?
While I do agree that I'd love to see Aqua the way she looks on those sexy CGI-pics ingame as well, I still gotta admit that I also like the way she looks in 2.8 as of now. Not because Nomura throws it at me and I accept it. I LIKE it.
Calling that "trash" and badmouthing such an opinion isn't objective in any kind of way.
Or 3) They're not aiming for it to look as great as Final Fantasy XV does?
While I do agree that I'd love to see Aqua the way she looks on those sexy CGI-pics ingame as well, I still gotta admit that I also like the way she looks in 2.8 as of now. Not because Nomura throws it at me and I accept it. I LIKE it.
Calling that "trash" and badmouthing such an opinion isn't objective in any kind of way.
Who's talking about Final Fantasy XV? That's a game that's going for a realistic look, which Kingdom Hearts obviously isn't and never should be going for.
Why Lnds brought up Final Fantasy XV in the first place is to show that they succeeded in getting the in-game visuals look like the CGI visuals, which in theory should be harder to do than getting the Kingdom Hearts CGI look.
I think a lot of you are misunderstanding our issues with the current visuals: wanting better visuals =/= realism.
Again, there are fundamental issues with the visuals that would make the look of the game loads better. Certain elements are lacking. And other developers succeed in getting that look right. Why is Square-Enix, out of all developers, seemingly having trouble with it?
They can (and probably want) than this.
The examples Lnds shows are all the proof you need to see how inferior current in-game graphics are, compared to CGI versions of the same character.
They said from the very beginning that they were not at all aiming to have them match their CGI versions. So the fact that they do not match is not all that pertinent of a point.
Like, yeah, it's impressive that Noctis matches so closely to his rendered form, but that was literally one of their biggest, stated goals when developing Versus (and FFXV). It is not the goal of the KH3 team.
| There are a load of reasons to believe the current look isn't what they initially envisioned |
Initial or not, Nomura himself believes that they have more or less captured what they aim to with Unreal.
| Like I've said before, this could mean two things: 1) they're still very much polishing said visuals 2) they're having issues with the engine |
or 3) there are various limitations with the engine which is why it doesn't match Luminous (no two engines are the same after all, different engines excel at different things), but they are satisfied with what they've been capable of producing.
Though, to be honest, I feel like we're at a point of diminishing returns with this topic. We have the same discussions and arguments every time there is a trailer :/ And, for better or worse, the art style is staying.
That comparison shot with current Aqua vs past Aqua was kind of what I meant about the 'shine'. I'm not asking for realism, pores, individual hairs, and the assortment of other things that you would expect from an FF game. The openings are as about "FF" as I imagined KH would become.
The newer model just has this extra saturation and extra shine and I truly wonder if that's what Nomura was going for? It seems like he was aiming for something more similar to the DDD opening, and it's just not quite there yet.
There's a weird disconnect with how Backcover looks color and 'shine' wise compared to 0.2 at the moment. I'm not super concerned because if Backcover looks so nice (to me), then surely 0.2 will be fine. Even if it's not, I'll have to accept it despite my grievances, because that's just how it goes.
Also note, the model itself is fine -though her surprised face looks a little strange for a split second-. It's purely just a matter of color tweaking imo. I understand the requirement of the model being visible when put against a detailed background though, which is why her model looks great while it's in action. But in the cutscenes... the extra 'shine' applied to it becomes unnecessary and a bit distracting.
You know, I thought BBS 0.2 would have some form of the Command Deck. Sadly for me, it does not. But at the very least, I've gotta say these graphics are outstanding, especially in Back Cover. It's really dynamic and pertains to a lot of visual aesthetics in Back Cover, and I can't wait to play it. Although, I never finished the first two remasters because my PS3 is in need of repair. FeelsBadMan.
That comparison shot with current Aqua vs past Aqua was kind of what I meant about the 'shine'. I'm not asking for realism, pores, individual hairs, and the assortment of other things that you would expect from an FF game. The openings are as about "FF" as I imagined KH would become.
The newer model just has this extra saturation and extra shine and I truly wonder if that's what Nomura was going for? It seems like he was aiming for something more similar to the DDD opening, and it's just not quite there yet.
There's a weird disconnect with how Backcover looks color and 'shine' wise compared to 0.2 at the moment. I'm not super concerned because if Backcover looks so nice (to me), then surely 0.2 will be fine. Even if it's not, I'll have to accept it despite my grievances, because that's just how it goes.
Also note, the model itself is fine -though her surprised face looks a little strange for a split second-. It's purely just a matter of color tweaking imo. I understand the requirement of the model being visible when put against a detailed background though, which is why her model looks great while it's in action. But in the cutscenes... the extra 'shine' applied to it becomes unnecessary and a bit distracting.
Admittedly, part of me has questioned if the extra shine is the "Kingdom Shader" for the Realm of Darkness, mostly because the render we got of 2.8 Aqua and her hair is quite duller than in these scenes. And then yeah you bring up how nothing in Back Cover looks quite like that either.
Not sure how likely that actually is ha.
They said from the very beginning that they were not at all aiming to have them match their CGI versions. So the fact that they do not match is not all that pertinent of a point.
Like, yeah, it's impressive that Noctis matches so closely to his rendered form, but that was literally one of their biggest, stated goals when developing Versus (and FFXV). It is not the goal of the KH3 team.
Can I get a source for that? I am looking at old interviews and I can't find that.
EDIT: This is the only thing I've found and he says the exact opposite, unless he changed his tune later on
| How about the graphics? [FONT='inherit']Nomura: [/FONT] [FONT='inherit']We're aiming for a photo realistic representation combined with a tone of each Disney world. |
EDIT 2: Found what you mean.
| Is the painted looking visual something that you’ve wanted to implement for a long time? [FONT='inherit'] [FONT='inherit']Since the very first title, the graphic gradation was made with the intention of representing the painted look of Disney's animations. But with the hardware back then didn't have the capability to adjust the lighting freely, so we tried to portray a painted visual in the textures we used. But this time the hardware's capabilities are better, there is no option of "not using light." You don't get a sense of graphical evolution just by setting old graphics to HD, my goal with the next gen isn't to do something that reproduces the pre-rendered scenes from KH1 & KH2 in real time. I considered the concept of the visuals and thus the representation Kingdom Shader was created.[/FONT] |
That... doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it explain why 0.2 has the unfinished look it has. Cause it definitely doesn't match what Nomura describes as the "Kingdom Shader", or photo-realistic graphics.
The only thing I can think of is that he was referring to the Disney worlds when he was talking about the Shader and to everything else when he was talking about "photo-realism". So the graphics should look closer to the CGI renders but that look will be changed when you visit specific Disney worlds.
EDIT
About the Shiny-Shit Topic...
[video=youtube;KI_NN9voxUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_NN9voxUw[/video]
If ya ask me, the only game/movie where the characters are "shiny" is 0.2. nd that may just be because they rushed or something, I have no idea.
BUT JUST LOOK AT THAT BACKCOVER.
EDIT
About the Shiny-Shit Topic...
[video=youtube;KI_NN9voxUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI_NN9voxUw[/video]
If ya ask me, the only game/movie where the characters are "shiny" is 0.2. nd that may just be because they rushed or something, I have no idea.
BUT JUST LOOK AT THAT BACKCOVER.
The only thing that uses the Kingdom Shader in this video - per Nomura's descriptions- is the very start of the trailer, before the beach scene. Everything else is just regular
[FONT='inherit']You saw it a little bit in the E3 trailer, this visual of a Disney 2D produced painted image represented in 3D.[/FONT] |
The only thing that uses the Kingdom Shader in this video - per Nomura's descriptions- is the very start of the trailer, before the beach scene. Everything else is just regular
So what now? I'm talking about the shine, not the Shader.
Whatever
I have the feeling not everyone here is on the same page about what a shader is and what is does.
I mostly agree with Lnds500's observations but I'm not so sure the current graphic style is basically the result of a downgrade (for the lack of a better word) or if SE is still not there with establishing the right mood for every scene. Everything in Yen Sid's tower still looks notoriously bad and there is a stark contrast between Aqua, her surroundings and most effects. On the other hand the footage of KHIII and Back Cover shows that it can work.
When I looked at KH3 again, it looks fine... EXCEPT when Sora goes into that dark place with the keyblade transformation. This is what originally turned me off when it first appeared too. Sora's skin looked like plastic.... when it was dark.
Could it be that darkness (whether it's the dark realm or just a dark area) coats the characters with a plastic look on purpose? (Well, except the scene in Yen Sid's tower, it has the same shine/shading problems, mostly Yen Sid himself)
Backcover just looks fantastic to me, it's really all I expect from the new games coming up. If everything ends up looking like that, then I have no problems. (The game between Eraqus and Xehanort is also top notch)
That... doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it explain why 0.2 has the unfinished look it has. Cause it definitely doesn't match what Nomura describes as the "Kingdom Shader", or photo-realistic graphics.
I don't want to be a kill-joy but can I just point out that it is very unlikely 0.2 is actually finished yet so of course it will still have an unfinished look about it!!! I doubt the actual game won't be fully completed until Octoberish time.
|
In my opinion, if they can make all the in-game character models look like this gif, we're good.
My thoughts may be a little rusty in that department, but is it even feasible to compare the scenes shown of 0.2 with Aqua/Yen Sid, Kairi and Riku (and any KH III gameplay footage) with instances like any scene from Back Cover or the DDD opening?
Shouldn't both of the latter instances be be pre-rendered material anyways and thus be impossible to reach by in-game scenes in terms of quality?
One should not forget that unlike the Days and Coded cutscene collections, Back Cover will be a true movie so most of it will probably be pre-rendered stuff that looks by default better than any actual gameplay footage or cutscenes using the gameplay-quality.
For the most part all it really needs is for the skin to be a little more matte, i mean i know it's been said many times how shiny she looks, but i don't think it'd be that hard?? and it's not a matter that it's 'shinier' to make make it fit in with the disney worlds either. Look at all the newer cgi disney movies. Not that i am expecting movie worthy visuals at every turn, but none of them have weirdly shiny skin, and i doubt weirdly shiny models of the 2d films would look right either.
(a little bit of shine looks normal but not really the evenly oiled up aqua we see at the moment)
But as said, this'll probably get fixed by the time we get our hands on it.
My thoughts may be a little rusty in that department, but is it even feasible to compare the scenes shown of 0.2 with Aqua/Yen Sid, Kairi and Riku (and any KH III gameplay footage) with instances like any scene from Back Cover or the DDD opening?
Shouldn't both of the latter instances be be pre-rendered material anyways and thus be impossible to reach by in-game scenes in terms of quality?
One should not forget that unlike the Days and Coded cutscene collections, Back Cover will be a true movie so most of it will probably be pre-rendered stuff that looks by default better than any actual gameplay footage or cutscenes using the gameplay-quality.
It takes a lot of work and even then, it won't look exactly the same, but it's definitely possible to make things look closer to the pre-rendered scenes.
I think a good example is the new Ratchet and Clank game, which has (iirc) cutscenes taken straight out of the movie. These cutscenes are also pre-rendered and look loads better than the actual game. However, the game itself still looks very close to those cutscenes.
Unreal Engine is a very capable engine for these kind of visuals, so I doubt this is the best they can do. Here's something a Zelda fan made with Unreal:
[video=youtube;GgbGgtq-NMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbGgtq-NMc[/video]
With the less realistic visuals, they could also put more resources in achieving higher framerates. I'm just worried they're rushing things for the sake of getting the game out early. Again, since 0.2 is pretty much a tech demo for Kingdom Hearts 3, now would be the time to get those concerns out there.
For the most part all it really needs is for the skin to be a little more matte, i mean i know it's been said many times how shiny she looks, but i don't think it'd be that hard?? and it's not a matter that it's 'shinier' to make make it fit in with the disney worlds either. Look at all the newer cgi disney movies. Not that i am expecting movie worthy visuals at every turn, but none of them have weirdly shiny skin, and i doubt weirdly shiny models of the 2d films would look right either.
100% agreed.
Muke
June 8, 2016 @ 12:08 pmOffline